Yes ,remember the bad old days selling players Money problems poor management somebody else owning the ground.weve had a bad run of injuries all clubs do l know what I'm doing backing the club players coach and management .up the trin

Personally i am quite happy with where we are. I thought the gap to the top 5 would be bigger considering the players we have or have had missing. Now that we are getting players like Brough and BT due back we can start reeling the teams above back in.

The forwards making ground issue to me is pretty simple. When you are missing Johnstone and Tupou who more often than not break the tackle on plays 1 and 2 and find a quick ptb it’s so much easier for the big guys to move forward and get over the advantage line.

No disrespect to our current backs but there’s only Lyne who can make the hard yards near our own line and actually start a set on the front foot. On Saturday the likes of Sau and BJB were dominated in the tackle leaving the forwards the uphill task of having defenders up in their face before they could get any momentum.

Those first 2 hit ups from the back are more important than some seem to realise

No one has mentioned line speed in defence...

I think king is good forward, does the job runs hard and straight and I totally agree re his game time. He’s 24 year old and he should playing the full game. It’s systematic of the game that players especially forwards have to be brought off after 20 minutes or 17 minutes and 4 seconds sometimes when they’ve hardly touched the ball or made a tackle, if big Dave and wood are our best players then it’s ridiculous to have them walking up and down the touchlines get them fitter and playing for 80. It happens at all clubs and I think we only play for 20 mins here and there as the intensity and have a grip on the game disappears.

I think Koppy and Fifita have played there best games when playing for long periods. PP played his best ever game for us against Cas when he did nearly a full 80. I do think all teams sub players for the sake of it. If a player is in the grove and wants to stay on then let him, it will be obvious to all when he’s had enough.

'No one has mentioned line speed in defence' well you have now, anything to added now that you have

I think the point is that our line speed in defence is usually poor, slow and doesn't match that of our opposition. How often do we see a match move with each set back toward our defensive 3rd? Which usually results in a try.

Refer to page 2 Adam, there was plenty of discussion on that topic

Either read the full thread or don't bother having input on it. FGS!

How on earth did we lose to Hull KR n all.