FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > 140 years at Belle Vue - 14th April 2019
15 posts in 2 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, PopTart , kinleycat , Wildthing
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain66No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 20186 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2019Jan 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Yes certainly worth celebrating.

Could we we already have our future sealed stadium wise, and we are holding off on announcements until this time, making it a double celebration. Celebrating our past and our future icon_biggrin.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5286No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2023Oct 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
34236.jpg
[img:1yv09n11]http://www.rlfans.com/images/sigs/newgroundb4cas.gif[/img:1yv09n11] UP THE TRIN !!!!:34236.jpg



Another reason it should get preserved a part of stadia history!

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman1468
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 1970Jun 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: newgroundb4cas "Another reason it should get preserved a part of stadia history!'"
the only bit you could preserve is the pitch

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach6293
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
31007_1580947500.jpg
EVENTUALLY, WE'LL WIN SOMETHING, ,MAYBE, IF I'M STILL ALIVE THEN:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_31007.jpg



Interesting, and I loved the OS map from 1893 showing the club name, but I can't see any evidence of Trinity using the ground in 1879. It seems mere speculation that it must have been 14th April as why else would they have a game two days after the Yorkshire Cup. Perhaps it was because it was a cup game, as opposed to a pre-arranged fixture?

I'd love to see a report of the first time we played rugby on that field. It's my understanding that we occupied the Alexandria Fields until 1892.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3011
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2022Sep 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
16076_1338531824.jpg
[img:2ukpdlzh]https://i.imgur.com/1L50pOYm.png[/img:2ukpdlzh]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16076.jpg



Quote: Slugger McBatt "Interesting, and I loved the OS map from 1893 showing the club name, but I can't see any evidence of Trinity using the ground in 1879. It seems mere speculation that it must have been 14th April as why else would they have a game two days after the Yorkshire Cup. Perhaps it was because it was a cup game, as opposed to a pre-arranged fixture?

I'd love to see a report of the first time we played rugby on that field. It's my understanding that we occupied the Alexandria Fields until 1892.'"


I was looking for any evidence to support the date when we first played at the current site / moved there permanently.

I was using the maps to suggest that the 1892 date was perhaps not as certain as is asserted. Google maps were pretty rubbish back in the 1880s and drawing a map took a lot of work.

The map was published in 1893, which gives the absolute latest date of occupation as 1892, but the survey itself was carried out between 1888 and 1890. No playing fields are marked off Elm (Tree) Street and the current stadium looks well established by the time the map information was gathered (latest 1890).

The quote on Wiki from Reverend Marshall in "Football - the Rugby Union Game" [i(first published 1892) [/iwrote, "the club migrated to Belle Vue on the opposite side of the road to the present field, and where the first cup ties were played. In the following year a move was made to the present field." If they'd moved in 1892, surely it would have been stated here. The first cup game was on 8th December 1877. Wakefield were knocked out the week after by Halifax.
The Yorkshire Cup was a huge step towards what became the 1895 split. The first ever rugby knock-out competition (following the example set by the FA in 1871/72) was very much frowned upon by the RFU, . Trinity won this competition in its 2nd year on 12th April 1879, which was a massive moment in the club's history.

"100 years of Rugby - the history of Wakefield Trinity 1873-1973"[5] states "Their move to the arena which still forms their home did not come until late in 1892. In December of that year the club agreed to lease a field adjacent to the St Catherine's School and there they made their headquarters which have remained so throughout the rest of their history."
This is where it seems to me that there is confusion over playing at the current site and making it
their headquarters/ownership/leasing/abandoning the other site. Again, a map made by 1890, but published in 1893 clearly states the ground to be 'Wakefield Trinity Football Ground'. Would they have made late alterations in December 1892? Are there any newspaper articles from that time which describe the move?

They were one of, if not the, top teams in the country at that time and went on to win the cup 4 times between 1879 and the split in 1895, and runners-up a further 5 times. The advent of a cup competition made the game into much more of a spectator sport and required better facilities to accommodate the crowds. They were the first team from Yorkshire to play at Cardiff Arms Park.

The previous ordnance survey was in the 1850s and obviously had no sign of the club. The area around BV was still remarkably rural, and I'm not sure any detailed maps exist between those times.

Does anyone have access to irrefutable evidence? Original club records? @TrintyHeritage? Does the land registry show any details of ownership of the 2 sites?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach6293
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
31007_1580947500.jpg
EVENTUALLY, WE'LL WIN SOMETHING, ,MAYBE, IF I'M STILL ALIVE THEN:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_31007.jpg



Quote: coco the fullback "I was looking for any evidence to support the date when we first played at the current site / moved there permanently.

I was using the maps to suggest that the 1892 date was perhaps not as certain as is asserted. Google maps were pretty rubbish back in the 1880s and drawing a map took a lot of work.

The map was published in 1893, which gives the absolute latest date of occupation as 1892, but the survey itself was carried out between 1888 and 1890. No playing fields are marked off Elm (Tree) Street and the current stadium looks well established by the time the map information was gathered (latest 1890).

The quote on Wiki from Reverend Marshall in "Football - the Rugby Union Game" [i(first published 1892) [/iwrote, "the club migrated to Belle Vue on the opposite side of the road to the present field, and where the first cup ties were played. In the following year a move was made to the present field." If they'd moved in 1892, surely it would have been stated here. The first cup game was on 8th December 1877. Wakefield were knocked out the week after by Halifax.
The Yorkshire Cup was a huge step towards what became the 1895 split. The first ever rugby knock-out competition (following the example set by the FA in 1871/72) was very much frowned upon by the RFU, . Trinity won this competition in its 2nd year on 12th April 1879, which was a massive moment in the club's history.

"100 years of Rugby - the history of Wakefield Trinity 1873-1973"[5] states "Their move to the arena which still forms their home did not come until late in 1892. In December of that year the club agreed to lease a field adjacent to the St Catherine's School and there they made their headquarters which have remained so throughout the rest of their history."
This is where it seems to me that there is confusion over playing at the current site and making it
their headquarters/ownership/leasing/abandoning the other site. Again, a map made by 1890, but published in 1893 clearly states the ground to be 'Wakefield Trinity Football Ground'. Would they have made late alterations in December 1892? Are there any newspaper articles from that time which describe the move?

They were one of, if not the, top teams in the country at that time and went on to win the cup 4 times between 1879 and the split in 1895, and runners-up a further 5 times. The advent of a cup competition made the game into much more of a spectator sport and required better facilities to accommodate the crowds. They were the first team from Yorkshire to play at Cardiff Arms Park.

The previous ordnance survey was in the 1850s and obviously had no sign of the club. The area around BV was still remarkably rural, and I'm not sure any detailed maps exist between those times.

Does anyone have access to irrefutable evidence? Original club records? @TrintyHeritage? Does the land registry show any details of ownership of the 2 sites?'"


It would be fascinating to know. Some of the later OS maps show the cycle track around it, and I agree that the permanence of the site in the 1893 site does suggest using it before late 1892. Like you say, taking up a permanent lease isn't the same as using it for the first time. I think my recollection was from the JC Lindley book, now that you have quoted it.

15 posts in 2 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, PopTart , kinleycat , Wildthing
15 posts in 2 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, PopTart , kinleycat , Wildthing



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


5.35400390625:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Rumours thread
PopTart
2442
4m
Tonights match v HKR
ChampagneSup
79
7m
Decision on the field
Cruncher
1
22m
Proposed rule changes 2025
MjM
14
24m
Isa 1 year extension
Rogues Galle
9
25m
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
The Cooke Re
12
29m
Fev H Play Off
Bully_Boxer
21
41m
TV Games - Not Hull
BP1
2902
42m
Season tickets
Hudd-Shay
8
44m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2412
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Leigh it is
WWste
75
1m
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
The Cooke Re
12
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40180
1m
Isa 1 year extension
Rogues Galle
9
1m
Play-off semi-final
BarnsleyGull
19
1m
Fev H Play Off
Bully_Boxer
21
2m
Season tickets
Hudd-Shay
8
3m
2025 TRANSFER AND RETENTION RUMOURS
Listenup94
1
3m
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Vancouver Le
8
3m
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fightback To Secure Grand Final Spot
Mild Rover
2
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Decision on the field
Cruncher
1
TODAY
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
The Cooke Re
12
TODAY
Worst semi
Barstool Pre
5
TODAY
2025 TRANSFER AND RETENTION RUMOURS
Listenup94
1
TODAY
Sam Burgess
Bobby Digita
6
TODAY
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fightback To Secure Grand Final Spot
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Squad 2025
Nat (Rugby_A
1
TODAY
Tonights match v HKR
ChampagneSup
79
TODAY
Isa 1 year extension
Rogues Galle
9
TODAY
2024 IMG gradings
northernblok
2
TODAY
Championship Awards
Butcher
7
TODAY
Season tickets
Hudd-Shay
8
TODAY
Best Semi
sir adrian m
13
TODAY
Ben Condon is a Leopard
Jack Gaskell
1
TODAY
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Vancouver Le
8
TODAY
Any decent RL reads for me hols
norbellini
1
TODAY
Championship Play Off Final
PopTart
3
TODAY
Man of Steel
matt_wire
8
TODAY
Guest appearance
AgbriggAmble
2
TODAY
Squad for HKR
MorePlaymake
28
TODAY
Proposed rule changes 2025
MjM
14
TODAY
Fev H Play Off
Bully_Boxer
21
TODAY
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
TODAY
Play-off semi-final
BarnsleyGull
19
TODAY
Coach of the Year
Howfenwire
11
TODAY
Greatest game ever at HJ
Fantastic Mr
10
TODAY
World Club Challenge
Barstool Pre
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
193
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
774
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
813
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1220
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1446
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1196
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1606
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1307
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1530
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1705
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2054
Salford Close In On The Play O..
1659
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1699
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
2024
Wigan Warriors Defeat Hull KR ..
1721