Very sad that a man who cares enough about the club to risk his house and shun cheap gimmicks in favour of financial stability and a man who cares enough about his club to work tirelessly for decades for related charities with no gain for himself can't share the institution they both love. I only know al from what others have said and I'm willing to accept their view as fact as to his lifetime commitment to the club. Likewise they'll appreciate I trust MC equally based on his financial sacrifice and willingness to front up and speak his mind over the bulls and their attempt to sympathy vote their way out of a valid points deduction. Ironically, whether they're great blokes or complete tools, they can still be right and wrong over bringing in a plastic bottle, or apologising for stewarding alike. In my humble opinion, I don't feel the chairman is responsible for the individual actions of a steward and if there's blame, there are certainly middle men who should be taking responsibility before him. I do feel rules apply to the greatest fan or first time visitor alike though a right to discretely exercise a one-off caviat to smooth matters over could easily be applied. Personally, if I'm wronged by a member of staff in a business I tend to berate the individual involved rather than extent blame to the entire institution and even if al's grievance is legitimate, I think it's misplaced to lay it at the feet of the chairman, who like the majority of people on here, only knows what happened via heresay and 3rd party recollection. And if I'm honest, even if Carter WAS completely to blame, would I offset that against the financial stability, order, honesty and pragmatic running of the club we currently enjoy? Then yes, sorry. I don't feel that makes me rose-tinted or naive. I just feel you can't have everything you want in life and should sometimes be grateful for what you have. What we have is a club in a situation we would have bitten hands, wrists and arms off for this time last year. The gates are open for fans like al to come and enjoy said situation as part of the club community they helped build. I hope they can stand side by side with rest of us, including the chairman and do just that because we're weaker without them but together we're stronger. It's up to them.

That would be like opening a roundabout next to the Alton Towers entrance, you'll get some fares because some peeps love roundabouts but most will go for the big rides inside the theme park.

I've been following this story from time to time but still don't have the full picture. Whilst I appreciate it was now a while ago what exactly was the incident with Big Al? Was he denied entry with a drink? Did a steward rough hand him? What happened please since it all appears to be riddles at the moment.

If Trinity were a business in the real sense it would have died some time in the early 70's as would the game as a whole.

Ditto now, Carter isn't keeping the club going as a pure business interest as he knows he won't get much of his money back - who invests in a business where a loss is a certainty, come on, he'd be better off buying lottery tickets. His reasons may be many and complex and although he's intent on running it in a business like way which I admire he knows it's not ever going to perform like a real business and that is a fact.

So no a RL club is not and never will be a real business and will always depend on the goodwill of it's customers to survive in a way Tesco or any real business never could or would never expect to.

Try reading the 2nd post on Page 15 of this thread (by RealSteel)

Many thanks Fordy. It is clearer for me now.