agree! the bottom end of the leaue teams should not only use the 'free time' to develop their youth, and i believe for franchise to really work and ensure every team has the ability to win titles then there should be a drafting type system as used in the NFL!! problem is i am not sure how hey could implement it on the SL!

You can bring youngsters through as well as have P+R in my opinion. Just force teams to have set number of players that are club trained and home grown and only 2 or maybe 3 overseas players. You can have the exictitment of P+R and more youngsters come through.

There is a arguement that P+R helps the teams to produce young players would Shenton have got a chance in 2005 without relagation or Owen and Westerman in 2007?

So what are the benefits of the franchise system? We still get smashed by the Aussies - No change there then. The expansion clubs continue to be in the bottom part of the league (Catalans finished 3 in 2008 i think) with little support - No change there then. So why have it?

P&R is part and parcel of sport, always has been. If you go down, take it on the chin, work bloody hard and earn you right to be promoted, not some to****s decide it for you!

The way the RFL "looks after" the expansion clubs is a disgrace!

The idea behind the franchise system is to ensure that teams have a business model in place and the RFL can fully assess that a club is ready for the top flight. The idea behind it is a good one to be fair but it takes away but as I have mentioned it takes away a lot of excitement.

Also no one can tell me the RFL were confident that the Crusaders were ready for Super League in 2008 and if they did then someones head needs to roll.

You could argue all day about the pro cons of promotion and relagation and the franchise system and I can see the logic in both but for me as a fan I believe P + R just makes the product so much more appealing.

Have to agree...it's not the same without P+R....perhaps we could have a poll to see how many of us on here are in favour of it coming back ?? (Not that the RFL will listen to us fans



)

Anyone fancy starting a thread ??

Don't think it warrants a poll on this forum - the answer most people will give is that a return to P&R would be healthy for the sport, and far more enjoyable as a spectator - whatever the outcome might be.

I still say that P& should return, even allowing for ring-fencing the sacred cows and allowing only heartland clubs to be relegated - but that any promoted club should also be given 1 years safety net - i.e. relegation only an option from year 2 onwards. The sacred cows would have to be scutinised on seperate criteria - in case they are just making up the numbers - and if one should fail, the side due for relegation should be reprieved! Not perfect - but then what is!

Would that be the expansion club at Wrexham who finished above us in the league last year and beat us at home? The same expansion club who assembled just about a full squad good enough to win 3 more games than us within a few weeks of the season starting?

Or was it the expansion club from South France, the side that got to within 7 points of the Grand Final 2 years ago (after beating us at BV), the same season they got to the Challenge Cup Final? The expansion side with no fans who averaged well over 3,000 more than us 2 years ago and well over 1,000 more than us last year?

Or perhaps it was the expansion club from London who's squad has only 5 overseas players (compared to our 9)? The expansion club that recent England Internationals Tony Clubb, Chris Melling Rob Purdham & LMS played for (at the time of playing for England obviously)?

There are plenty of decent arguments against franchising but no fans, crap performance and contribution to competition of the expansion clubs are deffinately NOT 3 of them.

Let's not be too quick to compare last years performances because as we now know there were extenuating circumstances which lead to our drastic fall in performances and results in the second half of the season.

Had we continued the way we started we would have comfortably made the play offs as we did the year before.

And flopped out to an expansion team infront of a poor crowd, if memory serves.

It's nowt to do with the RFL and whilst they won't do us any favours can we really blame them?

Forgive me if this has been posted elsewhere, but I think an awful lot of people are missing a huge point about the franchising system.
I agree it was brought in to safeguard the future of the so called expansion clubs, but whether by skill of the RFL or simple good fortune it also prevents something else from happening. Anyone guessed it yet??

Look at the timing of the whole franchise system. Promotion and relegation meant that anyone could be relegated, however it was always the same teams struggling over and over. That was until Wigan had an absolute stinker and came within a whisker of being relegated. Without employing the tactics which they did, Wigan; in my opinion, would have been relegated. The consequences of this would have been massive for the RFL. The loss of income as well as the prestige of a club that size going down could have been catastrophic for the RFL. The only way to make sure a "big" club could never be relegated again was to bring in franchising and keep the smaller clubs fighting for the scraps from the table. The RFL, along with our own respective BoD's took the bait and in the process sold the game down the river with franchising. It hasn't been the same since and it never will until we rid ourselves of this artificial abomination.

What is the average home attendance of the Crusaders and Harlequins?

Your correct it was the team from Wrexham that finished above us with a team assembled full of Aussies with far more than any other team was allowed just before the season started, the same team that 3 competant super league coaches on their rosta and the same team who had to send players back midway through a season for not having correct permits the one before. Level playing field would be nice!

The Catalan have done well since they came in i agree, but the fact they were allowed to stay in for three years at the start was just a joke, what other sport would do that?

And as for Tony Clubb, Chris Melling and Rob Purdham hardly International class are they Tommy?

While the RFL continue to support these clubs, teams like us have no chance.