So AJ you are prepared to have innocent folk killed because we should be nice to terrorists, no wonder we are seen as a soft touch, I agree to a point re boundaries but terrorists have no boundaries and should be treated with all tools available.

I have no qualms about someone suffering if it means for an example avoiding a repeat of London, Madrid bombings.

We might as well all just bend over to let the terrorists and followers well and truly shaft folk.

How do you know they are guilty?

How do you know they are a terrorist?

Cracking misquote by the way.

I suppose I also said we should give them sweeties?

Some light readinghttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2302-2005Jan11.htmlrl

rlhttp://www.philosophers.co.uk/cafe/provocations20.htmrl

Interesting articles, but they are written by professionals who are trying to "sell" their point of view. It would be interesting to see similar thoughts from those with the opposite view.

I think we need to understand that there is a big difference between torture and interrogation with a blurring of the edges where the two meet.

I wonder if terrorists use torture?

The point I am trying to make AJ is if the police or security services get reliable that is if anything is totally reliable that a terrorist plot is under way whether at very early stage or advanced then all means neccessary should be used to gleam information, whether you call it interrogation or torture to me is neither here or there.

Mind games such as sleep deprivation and the like are mental torture are you saying we should not even try this or just give them a pat on the back saying oh well at least we asked.

How do you know that?
Non of us, have any idea of the info, the Americans and us have got out of Guantamo Bay.
We don't know, how many lives have been saved, because of the info they have got.

As Dreamer has pointed out, torture isn't just beating people senseless.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's counter productive.

Exactly, and knowing the Americans, if they had got anything worthwhile out of it, we would know by now.

And I have to ask, if it is a success, why is it closing next year?

Its good to have a debate like this. AJ recently the usa and the uk have foiled and arrested folk relating to terrorist plots are you really believing that if we asked those involved nicely they would spill the beans on others that may be part of any plot, if so you are in a different world to me. Out of curiousity is one of your favourite songs white flag by dido

I know where AJ is coming from; if we are supposed to be 'better' than the terrorists, we shouldn't be sinking to their level. Yes, terrorists do evil things, that's why they are the bad guys! We, on the other hand, are trying to occupy the moral high ground, so we can't admit to doing bad stuff.
But, I'm pretty sure there's all sorts going on on our behalf, that we never find out about. Probably just as well...