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I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right! Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness. Anon.:simpsons/simp048.gif



Quote: Starbug "I take it that this was the Club keighley funding coaches to take keighley fans to watch the Cougars play at away matches ?

Maybe a more financially benifitial arrangement would be for the home clubs to contribute to coach transport for the away fans to visit them ?

If say Dewsbury or Fax offered to supply free coaches to their grounds for your matches there and it was marketed properly would you take twice as many as you currently do ?

If in return you [ Keighley Cougars ] were willing to provide free coach travel for any adult fan of an away club buying a ticket for the match at Cougar park , would you as fans be happy with that ?'"


Good idea in principle, but unless a club believes that this scheme will draw significantly more away support rather than just subsidising those that would attend anyway, then why would they want the hassle? I'm not saying this is the case, just looking at other perspectives.

In response to Gooseyget the money up front and choose a cut off point where cancellation costs the organiser nothing [/i. The problem is that those people who have good intentions get taken advantage of by those who "look after number one".

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Dreamer "Good idea in principle, but unless a club believes that this scheme will draw significantly more away support rather than just subsidising those that would attend anyway, then why would they want the hassle? I'm not saying this is the case, just looking at other perspectives.

quote]


Dont worry I have considered all perspectives , but until clubs at our level realise that unless they start to work together the best they can hope for is survival with the occaisional administration thrown in , they will get nowhere

There is a saying , " Too busy earning a living to make any money " , and that is how clubs are operating , A leap of faith is required at some stage , the longer until that leap happens the less chance all clubs have of surviving and prospering

Why was ' Cougarmania ' so good ? , what did it provide ?

Atmosphere

What is most lacking at matches outside the top flight ?

Atmosphere

That is the challenge to all the clubs outside SL , how do you create atmosphere ?

What is needed to create it ?

You have to break it down into it's component parts and address each one differently

One of those things is a good level of away support , so how do you encourage a good away support ?

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I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right! Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness. Anon.:simpsons/simp048.gif



Quote: Starbug "Much as I admire your BOD's ambition , without massive investment [ £ 10 million upwards ] just to get into SL , then many more to become competitive it is unlikely to happen , what however is a reasistic ambition ?

I'd say the same as most clubs not currently in SL , a half full stadium with a large % of local youths [ the future of your club ] watching and supporting a competative Cougars team with a good away following in attendance helping to create an enjoyable atmosphere which in return can provide a self financing club with funds left over for development

When you get to that stage , then and only then should SL even be contemplated

The ' Utopia ' of a franchised SL where all clubs are successful is a myth , there always has to be a bottom club , and potentially that club could remain there indefinatley , until it is that badly damaged it dissapears'"


I think you'll find that most of us already understand this icon_wink.gif

I came away from the meeting a little confused and disappointed that we were being totally unrealistic, but on reflection I think this is what was meant:

Stabilise the club
Gradual ground improvement
Competitive in championship
Bounce straight back if relegated
Links with local college to aid ground improvement
Better links with amateurs and youth teams
Better links with fans
50% of any profit will go toward local debts from previous club.
Ultimate ambition -Superleague (if we happen to be ready in 2014 we will go for it in not then 2017)

I think the club were trying to say that they will make the most of opportunities presented to them, and were trying to put forward an ambitious front to attract new support and funds. I think the implication was that if we made substantial progress then we would "go for it". However, to the listener it came across that the prime target was superleague in 2014 with the subsequent thought that the new board either lack realism, are naive or think we are both!

Its early days - lets give them a chance.

PS I'm still no clearer re the "debt legacy". I, and several others asked previous directors about the tax position and the general financial position to be told that tax bills were paid and the club was in good health icon_rolleyes.gif

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Quote: Starbug "Much as I admire your BOD's ambition , without massive investment [ £ 10 million upwards ] just to get into SL , then many more to become competitive it is unlikely to happen , what however is a reasistic ambition ?

I'd say the same as most clubs not currently in SL , a half full stadium with a large % of local youths [ the future of your club ] watching and supporting a competative Cougars team with a good away following in attendance helping to create an enjoyable atmosphere which in return can provide a self financing club with funds left over for development

When you get to that stage , then and only then should SL even be contemplated

The ' Utopia ' of a franchised SL where all clubs are successful is a myth , there always has to be a bottom club , and potentially that club could remain there indefinatley , until it is that badly damaged it dissapears'"


This has some really good points.

The new board's initial efforts have to be applauded.

Attracting a huge global corporation as Molson-Coors is was a great start. If they're willing to put money in to us it can be used to attract other large sponsors.

Allowing kids who play for local junior clubs in for nothing, the kind of fantastic idea that Cougars are all about.

A willingness to get on the back of Br*dford council's back because they only fund us £20k/year as opposed to the millions they already have and intend to pump in to the B*lls.

Whilst I feel making Super League in 4 years time is a nearly impossible task (and lets face it even if we met all the criteria it would only be a slim chance) it at least gives the board a target to aim for. So long as they don't put the club's future in jeopardy trying for it I don't see a problem.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Stealth Comic "This has some really good points.

The new board's initial efforts have to be applauded.

Attracting a huge global corporation as Molson-Coors is was a great start. If they're willing to put money in to us it can be used to attract other large sponsors.

Allowing kids who play for local junior clubs in for nothing, the kind of fantastic idea that Cougars are all about.

A willingness to get on the back of Br*dford council's back because they only fund us £20k/year as opposed to the millions they already have and intend to pump in to the B*lls.

Whilst I feel making Super League in 4 years time is a nearly impossible task (and lets face it even if we met all the criteria it would only be a slim chance) it at least gives the board a target to aim for. So long as they don't put the club's future in jeopardy trying for it I don't see a problem.'"


Can you explain to me why this is a good thing ?

Then I'll explain how it can actually be counter productive

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I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right! Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness. Anon.:simpsons/simp048.gif



Quote: Starbug "Can you explain to me why this is a good thing ?

Then I'll explain how it can actually be counter productive'"


Money icon_wink.gif

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Dreamer "Money

Which you will use to do what ?

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I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right! Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness. Anon.:simpsons/simp048.gif



Quote: Starbug "Which you will use to do what ?'"


Hmmm... If there was a lot of it I would fill a bath and roll around in it icon_lol.gif

But seriously, I would expect any well run business to have a strategy that will enable the company to reach its objectives. This money should be spent within the strategic plan.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Dreamer "Hmmm... If there was a lot of it I would fill a bath and roll around in it
Not good enough , try again , that answer is far too RFL esque like for me

Come on you can do better than that

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I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right! Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness. Anon.:simpsons/simp048.gif



Quote: Starbug "Not good enough , try again , that answer is far too RFL like for me

Come on you can do better than that'"


..... you mean a very, very big bath icon_lol.gif

How does it go.... if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Dreamer "..... you mean a very, very big bath
Still waiting , in fact you are making my argument for me . carry on

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I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right! Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness. Anon.:simpsons/simp048.gif



Quote: Starbug "Still waiting , in fact you are making my argument for me . carry on'"


If I answer correctly will I get two stars on my report?

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Dreamer "If I answer correctly will I get two stars on my report?'"


You and I both know you are trying to avoid stating the obvious , the money would go on an improved playing squad , as success on the pitch will result in more income through the turnstiles , wouldn't it ?

But you and I also know that it doesn't work like that

Sponsorship is great , however it has to profitable for the sponsor or it will only last for a short time , if it has only been given because of locality then it is of little long term use

The CEO of United Emirates Airlines is from Leigh , he was approached in 2003/4 to sponsor the club , he declined but suggested if we were ever to get into SL for us to ask again , this we did the following year but unfortunatley a local business had already taken the option as the main shirt sponsor , but true to his word they did sponsor us , the local business struggled and ultimatley went bust 14 months into a 2 year deal and only paid for part of the original agreed amount

A ' Charitable ' sponsor is not a long term strategy , it is a short term boost , and sometimes it is a bad thing as it can make an administration lazy , they also tend to only want to invest in a tangible item , ie a particular player or the like , when a more useful contribution would be a marketing budget for 3/4 years to enable the club to try to build a bigger fan base , and fans tend to last longer than sponsors

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I have only been wrong once and thats because I thought I was wrong but I was wrong I was right! Petty authoritarians aren’t man enough to challenge the actions of a person face to face; instead they incite a forum of rumour, innuendo and half truths, and impose rude sanctions to discourage those who dare question fairness. Anon.:simpsons/simp048.gif



Quote: Starbug "You and I both know you are trying to avoid stating the obvious , the money would go on an improved playing squad , as success on the pitch will result in more income through the turnstiles , wouldn't it ?

But you and I also know that it doesn't work like that

Sponsorship is great , however it has to profitable for the sponsor or it will only last for a short time , if it has only been given because of locality then it is of little long term use

The CEO of United Emirates Airlines is from Leigh , he was approached in 2003/4 to sponsor the club , he declined but suggested if we were ever to get into SL for us to ask again , this we did the following year but unfortunatley a local business had already taken the option as the main shirt sponsor , but true to his word they did sponsor us , the local business struggled and ultimatley went bust 14 months into a 2 year deal and only paid for part of the original agreed amount

A ' Charitable ' sponsor is not a long term strategy , it is a short term boost , and sometimes it is a bad thing as it can make an administration lazy , they also tend to only want to invest in a tangible item , ie a particular player or the like , when a more useful contribution would be a marketing budget for 3/4 years to enable the club to try to build a bigger fan base , and fans tend to last longer than sponsors'"


There is no such thing as bad money - only bad management. The real problem is that directors are usually also fans and that's where common (business) sense goes out of the window.

Our last BOD made all the right noises re not overspending but look what happened. They told everyone within earshot how good our finances were but were apparently telling porkies. I can only assume that they were grasping at straws and trying to balance current debt against possible future income.

There is far more to being a director than strutting Nero like around the executive lounge and looking down your nose at the plebs (fans).

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Dreamer "There is no such thing as bad money - only bad management. The real problem is that directors are usually also fans and that's where common (business) sense goes out of the window.

Our last BOD made all the right noises re not overspending but look what happened. They told everyone within earshot how good our finances were but were apparently telling porkies. I can only assume that they were grasping at straws and trying to balance current debt against possible future income.

There is far more to being a director than strutting Nero like around the executive lounge and looking down your nose at the plebs (fans).'"



Now your getting it icon_wink.gif

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St.Helens-Warrington
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Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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