FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Other Sports > Men in Lycra - the Wrestling thread
2995 posts in 201 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner8224No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2012Sep 2012LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
7741_1339451243.jpg
When you're a Bradford fan there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately it's usually an oncoming train:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7741.jpg



Quote: Roofs "Agree mate. Anyone who wants to learn about the real art of pro wrestling should watch shoot interviews with the likes of Bobby Heenan, Honky Tonk Man, Raven, and Jim Cornette. For example Raven talks about how he showed a super-stiff Japanese match to his friend, who understandably wasn't impressed because (as he said) - where's the art form in hitting people for real? Any two of us fans on here could have a 60 minute fight in a park and legitimately beat the $h1t out of each other with iron bars, chairs etc, but tell us to have a 60 minute Iron Man match in a ring in a 10,000 seat arena without any weapons and we'd be screwed.
Must admit I was a fan of the WWF/E Hardcore division and the legendary Hardy Boyz / E&C / Dudleys series of stunt-filled matches, but ATEOTD it was only going to last so long - you can't keep doing that to your body every night before you soon have to slow things down.
Guess it's also why I've personally never got into UFC/MMA - watching guys hurt each other for real just makes me feel uncomfortable, whereas been able to suspend your disbelief in wrestling is a lot more entertaining IMO.
I agree. I mean, look at the HBK vs Brett Hart Ironman match from WM. A 60 minute spectacle of a match which had drama and made you care about both men, yet had no pinfalls or submissions in the 60 minutes. I can't honestly think of more than half a dozen guys active today who could perform to a similar level

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner29212No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Sep 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
6310_1310045241.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6310.jpg



I've been watching a lot of wrestling recently because the kids are mad into it. (Still at the 'they think it's real stage).

I was watching the Raw Rumble the other night and John Morrison was up to his usual tricks, for example hooking the ropes with his feet as he was headed off onto the floor to stop himself. Unbelievable skill and athleticism, but it got me thinking, what would happen if he messed it up?

There were several similar moments in the Royal Rumble where wrestlers who would go on to have big mini storylines within the Rumble almost went out, for example saving themselves by holding the rope etc. If they fell, would they go out or just pretend it didn't happen?

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner12006No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2019Oct 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
6278_1381491357.jpg
[b:3ekusm3q][color=#FF0000:3ekusm3q]WIGAN RLFC[/color:3ekusm3q][/b:3ekusm3q]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6278.jpg



Quote: Saddened! "There were several similar moments in the Royal Rumble where wrestlers who would go on to have big mini storylines within the Rumble almost went out, for example saving themselves by holding the rope etc. If they fell, would they go out or just pretend it didn't happen?'"


They'd have to go out and start the storyline some other way I guess.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1620
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2014Sep 2013LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
45763_1282658880.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45763.jpg



Quote: Saddened! "I've been watching a lot of wrestling recently because the kids are mad into it. (Still at the 'they think it's real stage).

I was watching the Raw Rumble the other night and John Morrison was up to his usual tricks, for example hooking the ropes with his feet as he was headed off onto the floor to stop himself. Unbelievable skill and athleticism, but it got me thinking, what would happen if he messed it up?

There were several similar moments in the Royal Rumble where wrestlers who would go on to have big mini storylines within the Rumble almost went out, for example saving themselves by holding the rope etc. If they fell, would they go out or just pretend it didn't happen?'"


That will be where all the training and rehearsals they do comes in though, making sure that it won't go wrong!

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member28736No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200322 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2016Mar 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
4397_1335909374.png
@chemical_viking:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_4397.png



Quote: Saddened! "I've been watching a lot of wrestling recently because the kids are mad into it. (Still at the 'they think it's real stage).

I was watching the Raw Rumble the other night and John Morrison was up to his usual tricks, for example hooking the ropes with his feet as he was headed off onto the floor to stop himself. Unbelievable skill and athleticism, but it got me thinking, what would happen if he messed it up?

There were several similar moments in the Royal Rumble where wrestlers who would go on to have big mini storylines within the Rumble almost went out, for example saving themselves by holding the rope etc. If they fell, would they go out or just pretend it didn't happen?'"


They improvise without the guy who messed up. X Pac did it years back. He was meant to be in the final four, he failed to catch a rope. Apparently Alex Riley wasn't meant to go out when he did this rumble. They just get on with it.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman22698No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Sep 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
1140_1361875489.jpg
Leeds Rhinos? 8 for you, Leeds Rhinos! You go, Leeds Rhinos. And none for Castleford Tigers. Bye!:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1140.jpg



The refs are all miked up, and if things go awry, they come up with a new plan from the Gorilla position, and it's relayed to the wrestlers via the refs.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15807No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2019Oct 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
17371_1305700326.jpg
"The Mail understands..." NOTHING! :SUBMISSION: :lol: [quote="-VIKINGMAN-"]Respect to Roofs, the president of East Hull. :wink:[/quote]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17371.jpg



Most famous Royal Rumble screw-up happened in 2005. IIRC Batista was supposed to win, but him and Cena somehow managed to eliminate each other at the same time, meaning there was no winner. A furious Vince McMahon came out to get the match restarted, and somehow tore both his quads whilst diving into the ring. icon_eek.gif eusa_sick.gif No doubt it's on that popular video sharing website somewhere.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2978
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2022May 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
35345_1422576416.jpg
Don't let your love turn to hate Now we've got to keep the faith Wigan Rugby League:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_35345.jpg



Quote: Roofs "Most famous Royal Rumble screw-up happened in 2005. IIRC Batista was supposed to win, but him and Cena somehow managed to eliminate each other at the same time, meaning there was no winner. A furious Vince McMahon came out to get the match restarted, and somehow tore both his quads whilst diving into the ring.
That finish was a work, wasn't it? Vince tearing his quads wasn't, but i'm sure the two guys going out at the same time was, a la Lex & Bret

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15807No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2019Oct 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
17371_1305700326.jpg
"The Mail understands..." NOTHING! :SUBMISSION: :lol: [quote="-VIKINGMAN-"]Respect to Roofs, the president of East Hull. :wink:[/quote]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17371.jpg



Quote: Jeff the God of Biscuits "That finish was a work, wasn't it? Vince tearing his quads wasn't, but i'm sure the two guys going out at the same time was, a la Lex & Bret'"


No I'm sure I read it was a screw-up, otherwise surely there would have been no reason for Vince to come out if it had all gone to plan?

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner8224No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2012Sep 2012LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
7741_1339451243.jpg
When you're a Bradford fan there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately it's usually an oncoming train:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7741.jpg



Quote: gulfcoast_highwayman "The refs are all miked up, and if things go awry, they come up with a new plan from the Gorilla position, and it's relayed to the wrestlers via the refs.'"


I read that as "milked up". Which in no way had me sitting here for 5 minutes going "wtf is milked up?"
But yes, the ref is supposed to be the in ring action prompter

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner29212No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Sep 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
6310_1310045241.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6310.jpg



Quote: Roofaldo "I read that as "milked up". Which in no way had me sitting here for 5 minutes going "wtf is milked up?"
But yes, the ref is supposed to be the in ring action prompter'"


So did I. Another example of that phenomenom of your brain reading only the first and last letters and forming the most likely middle itself.

I'm sure you've seen those examples where passages of wodrs can be raed at full speed eevn wehn the mddile letetrs are mxied up?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2978
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2022May 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
35345_1422576416.jpg
Don't let your love turn to hate Now we've got to keep the faith Wigan Rugby League:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_35345.jpg



Quote: Roofs "No I'm sure I read it was a screw-up, otherwise surely there would have been no reason for Vince to come out if it had all gone to plan?'"


Maybe Vince came out as part of the work? I'm almost certain with the way the refs reacted 'He won, no he won' etc was a work, and in the scripted finish Vince was to come down and sort it out, but tore both his quads in the process. It just didn't come across as a screw up, as Vince could have called the match to restart from the back.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach15807No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2019Oct 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
17371_1305700326.jpg
"The Mail understands..." NOTHING! :SUBMISSION: :lol: [quote="-VIKINGMAN-"]Respect to Roofs, the president of East Hull. :wink:[/quote]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17371.jpg



Quote: Jeff the God of Biscuits "Maybe Vince came out as part of the work? I'm almost certain with the way the refs reacted 'He won, no he won' etc was a work, and in the scripted finish Vince was to come down and sort it out, but tore both his quads in the process. It just didn't come across as a screw up, as Vince could have called the match to restart from the back.'"


No, it was botched, trust me Jeff. icon_wink.gif Batista was supposed to win clean (if you remember, he was quickly becoming the biggest star on Raw at that point with his fantastic fued against HHH and split from Evolution). Batista supposedly screwed up by falling over the top with Cena. There was panic backstage, so using split-second thinking they did the ref angle (where both refs were claiming each guy to be the winner). Vince came out genuinely furious and wanted to clean things up, then the accident happened. Trying to think where I learnt this, it was either Power Slam at the time, or maybe on the Vince McMahon profile DVD the WWE released about 3 or 4 years ago.

icon_smile.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach7637
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
17555_1637667680.png
Wigan RLFC:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17555.png



R-Truth with a spectacular botch. icon_lol.gif

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner8224No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2012Sep 2012LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
7741_1339451243.jpg
When you're a Bradford fan there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately it's usually an oncoming train:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7741.jpg



Quote: Dodo "R-Truth with a spectacular botch.
Which one? Where he messed up on the turnbuckle or where he tried to get a cheap pop by saying the name of a different town to the one they were in? Then getting boo'd when he was announced as the winner following a DQ of Ryan?

Speaking of Mason Ryan, if this guy was any greener he'd be one of your 5 a day.

And that 21/02/11 promo is clearly for the Undertaker as this week's one has lyrics "Aint no grave can hold my body down" being repeated over it

2995 posts in 201 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
2995 posts in 201 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


2.84521484375:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
George Hirst
Phuzzy
16
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
55
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
17s
Play-off semi-final
dboy
41
21s
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
kaybenbull
12
23s
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
Wires71
46
23s
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Wanderer
21
24s
Realistic targets for 2025
B0NES
92
25s
Recruitment rumours and links
MorePlaymake
3296
30s
Grand final Tickets
Egg Chasing
72
34s
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Grand Final
Wire n Steel
7
37s
George Hirst
Phuzzy
16
40s
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Phuzzy
16
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
Seth
18
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Deadcowboys1
16
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
kaybenbull
12
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
Captain Hook
14
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Grand Final
Wire n Steel
7
TODAY
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
55
TODAY
OUT 2025 Leon Ruan - Released
chapylad
13
TODAY
IN 2025 Cooper Jenkins - Expires 2026
christopher
26
TODAY
Search Sexy Girls from your city for night - Authentic Damse
excruciating
2
TODAY
IN 2025 Keenan Palasia - Expires 2026
BigRoy
13
TODAY
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Grand Final
FoxyRhino
1
TODAY
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back Grand Finals
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
NRL
Deadcowboys1
4
TODAY
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth Consecutive Title
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Seeking favourite images from grounds - past or present
retrosports
1
TODAY
Grand final Tickets
Egg Chasing
72
TODAY
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Grand Final Place
Wildthing
3
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
468
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
576
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
425
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
573
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
590
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
990
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1058
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1423
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1594
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1355
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1740
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1557
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1683
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1913
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2550
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.64M 2,683 80,13414,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Sat 12th Oct
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R30
18:00
Hull KR
v
Wigan
 Sun 13th Oct
       Championship 2024-R30
15:00
Swinton
v
Hunslet
15:00
Wakefield
v
York
17:00
Toulouse
v
Bradford
 Sun 27th Oct
     Mens Internationals 2024-R2
14:30
England M
v
Samoa M
 Sat 2nd Nov
     Womens Internationals 2024-R2
12:00
ENGLAND W
v
WALES W
     Mens Internationals 2024-R3
14:30
England M
v
Samoa M
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Sat 12th Oct
SL
18:00
Hull KR-Wigan
Sun 13th Oct
CH
15:00
Swinton-Hunslet
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sun 6th Oct
L1 26 Keighley6-20Hunslet
CH 29 Bradford25-12Featherstone
WSL2024 16 York V18-8St.HelensW
NRL 31 Melbourne6-14Penrith
Sat 5th Oct
CH 29 York27-10Widnes
SL 29 Wigan38-0Leigh
Fri 4th Oct
SL 29 Hull KR10-8Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 28 759 336 423 46
Hull KR 28 729 335 394 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Bradford 27 703 399 304 36
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
York 28 682 479 203 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 0 0 0 0 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
George Hirst
Phuzzy
16
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
55
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
17s
Play-off semi-final
dboy
41
21s
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
kaybenbull
12
23s
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
Wires71
46
23s
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
Wanderer
21
24s
Realistic targets for 2025
B0NES
92
25s
Recruitment rumours and links
MorePlaymake
3296
30s
Grand final Tickets
Egg Chasing
72
34s
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Grand Final
Wire n Steel
7
37s
George Hirst
Phuzzy
16
40s
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Kit for Saturday
Pie Eyed
8
TODAY
George Hirst
Phuzzy
16
TODAY
Player of the Season 2024
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Released Players List
Jemmo
4
TODAY
IN 2025 Jake Connor - Expires 2026
Seth
18
TODAY
Has anyone got any idea what is going on
Deadcowboys1
16
TODAY
Awards
The Avenger
11
TODAY
dan russell confirmed 2 year contract
Wires71
13
TODAY
Play-off Semi Final Toulouse A
kaybenbull
12
TODAY
2025 Catalans Dragons Kit
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Oli Leyland confirmed 2 year deal
Captain Hook
14
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Grand Final
Wire n Steel
7
TODAY
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
55
TODAY
OUT 2025 Leon Ruan - Released
chapylad
13
TODAY
IN 2025 Cooper Jenkins - Expires 2026
christopher
26
TODAY
Search Sexy Girls from your city for night - Authentic Damse
excruciating
2
TODAY
IN 2025 Keenan Palasia - Expires 2026
BigRoy
13
TODAY
2024 Southstandercom Prediction Competition Grand Final
FoxyRhino
1
TODAY
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back Grand Finals
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
NRL
Deadcowboys1
4
TODAY
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth Consecutive Title
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Seeking favourite images from grounds - past or present
retrosports
1
TODAY
Grand final Tickets
Egg Chasing
72
TODAY
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Grand Final Place
Wildthing
3
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
468
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
576
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
425
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
573
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
590
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
990
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
1058
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1423
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1594
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1355
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1740
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1557
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1683
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1913
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2550


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!