I'll tell you what, Roddy and I may have many differences on this football thread, but I couldn't have typed that post better myself.

City have no excuses, as a club they may be inexperienced, but the squad is full of supposedly big-name, big time players and coupled with a coach who is touted as a pretty good one, then their displays are bordering on embarrassing.

Must admit though, not as embarrassing as United's exit last year - If that had happened to Barca or Real Madrid, clubs who are supposedly United's equals, then the coach would have been fired within 24 hours of being eliminated.

United's exit was an embarrassment. But you don't respond to that embarrassment by making the stupid decision of firing a manager like Sir Alex Ferguson who has brought them 12 titles and 2 CL wins.

Look at United's position now. Top of the Premier League. Top of their CL group with a 100% record.

So should Fergie have been fired for last season?

Citeh didn't do nearly enough in Europe last season. But last season wasn't particularly about Europe, and their group was hard with Napoli and Bayern in it. This season has been an even bigger struggle, but the task is even harder. Look at Marid, they're struggling a little, even though they are the Spanish champions, have probably the best manager in the world and one of the 2 greatest players in the planet in their side. If Madrid hadn't managed a few very late goals then they could have been down like Citeh are right now.

Citeh could still win the league this season. If they do, they shouldn't GAT about the false goals that oppo's have set for them. They obviously will want European success after the investment they've made, but they probably aren't going to be stupid enough to believe the hype that they should be instantly among the best sides of the CL simply because they have a squad full of talented players.

We won the CL last season. This season we started on fire and led the pace in the PL. But if we'd have been in Citeh's group and put in the performances that we have in Europe, we'd have probably suffered even worse than Citeh have.

Look at the sides in Citeh's CL group - Real Madrid. Spanish Champions, managed by Mourinho (2CL's in 10 years), driven on by Ronaldo (one of the 2 God-level players in the world right now). Borussia Dortmond. German Champions, a side who beat Bayern Munich 5-2 in the German Cup Final last year. A clearly excellent side who have probably targeted the CL big time this year. Ajax. 4 times EC winners, but a side who know that they cannot compete in the modern financial stakes so have practically zero pressure on them in the CL this year.

Personally I think that's the best CL qualifying group that there's ever been. I think practically every club in this years CL is just thankful that they haven't been drawn in that group. 3 League Champions in the group, 2 ultra money clubs, 2 of the highest rated managers in the game right now. And in the whipping boy position - Ajax - 4 times European Cup winner. Chelsea get Nordsjaelland for 6 guaranteed points. Man United are in a group with 3 worse teams than Ajax.

Man City have been totally and absolutely screwed by the draw. That's the only way that they should look at this seasons campaign if they do well in the league.

I wouldn't mind, LGJM, but look how Dortmund performed in last year's CL. They aren't a club with a wealth of experience and they aren't a side that's invested mega-money to compete. Yes, they've won the Bundesliga and they are a good side, but Citeh should be finishing above them in the group stages, regardless of how much effort they put into it.

Citeh want to be big, they want the club to be big. The best way to achieve this is by winning the CL, it establishes the club globally amongst fans and players, I'm not saying they have to win it, but they have to progress and become a regular fixture in the latter stages. Yes, they have a hard group, but they are supposed to be a champion side with a great manager. IMO, they have one of the best sides in the world, I'd only put Barca and Madrid definitely above them, whilst they're pretty much equal or better than the rest. The lack of progress in Europe must be disappointing from a Citeh fan's perspective, even if they don't get the fuss about Europe.

I agree that Citeh are one of the very strongest sides in Europe.

I think Mancini could easily end up turfed out of Citeh because he's proved to be not good enough.

I just don't think the 2 CL campaigns Citeh have had have been enough to condemn him yet. The returns from their campaigns have been pretty shoddy and way below the standard they should be expecting, but I do think Mancini is still deserving of more time than just this season.

But even though Citeh have been poor this season in the CL, they really should have won the game against Ajax and the table would look very different. But just like refs are loath to give decisions to Suarez, I think refs are loath to give decisions towards the moneybags of Citeh unless they absolutely have to.

I think you are downplaying just how good Dortmund are. They beat Real Madrid at home and it took a late equaliser to stop them beating them in Madrid. I think that they are an even better version of Shaktar - a quality side who have matured and flourished who can punish the very best sides on their day. And they can play without too much pressure because not too much is expected of them if they are facing billion pound clubs.

Clueless roddy - LGJM, why waste so much time trying to discuss football with him ??? It's like taking on a blind school at guitar hero !!!!


#idiotscouser

Before the season started they had a poll on Bluemoon as to which was the priority, retaining the PL title or winning the CL. The result was something like 80-90% in favour of retaining the title. Its not that the CL is seen as unimportant, just that its seen as further down the road. That it should follow 2-3 title wins. That isn't to say that fans aren't disappointed at the CL performances, there clearly was an expectation that City would reach the knock out stage.

I don't think that there is any single reason for the poor CL performances. Mancini should take his share of the blame, particularly for a couple of strange selections. But its plain daft to put the blame entirely on him. The biggest problem has been the defensive mistakes. Its fundamentally been a performance problem not one of tactics or coaching. Its mystifying why, for example, a player like Kompany would duck out of the way of a shot in a CL game when he'd never do that in a league game.

And the opposition have been very good. Even Villareal posed more problems when they played at Etihad than did any PL team last season.

Hernandez

How come none of Suarez's team mates celebrated with him?

Is it because they know what he is?

Liverpool are struggling at the moment. Rodgers has surely got to change his tactics now? They had 1 shot on goal in 90 minutes, the second coming in injury time. They are not creating anything.

Can someone tell me what Joe Allen offers them? It's easy to see why he's got better passing accuracy than Xavi, but is there any point to any of them? He rarely plays a ball that isn't incredibly simple and more often than not completely pointless. Another £150m should see them back up towards the top of the table I suppose, but they are in major trouble if Suarez gets bored of being the big fish in the small pond.

Why do you even care? Every time we play you're the only poster who even bothers to criticise us. We know we're struggling, we know we need to get rid of players and we need to go backwards to move forwards. Allen is a good player, I didn't see the entire game today but from what I seen he wasn't playing the role he was meant to play when we signed him. He dictates the tempo of a game, you may see what he does as sideways passing but in the games I've seen of him this year, for me he's a smart player who can be very influential over our entire style. He can play one touch stuff, he can carry the ball, he can spray it wide and when Lucas comes back, I imagine we'll see him break forward and score some goals. I don't know why people expect world class performances immediately, everything takes time and Allen becoming more influential will take time as well. I like him, I think he'll be better when Lucas gets back, for now he's anchoring the midfield.

I think Liverpool did ok today.....Rodgers has at least got them playing for each other and whle it is obvious that they are 2 or 3 good players short, he does seem to have got a bit of a base to work from.

His main problem is going to be getting them through this season, because even with a few new signings in January, they are going to struggle to get any real consistancy going.

As long as the fans stay patient, then there is a chance that 3 or 4 years down the line, Rodgers may be able to get Liverpool competitive again.....However, asking Liverpool fans to remain patient for the time that is obviously needed, could be easier said than done.

where did all the Liverpool players go??!

Very few managers, who'd had the sort of criticism he's just endured, would have had the balls to revert to three at the back and put Maicon on against Bale as he did yesterday.

Anyone else heard the Suarez stat? They'd be bottom of the League without Mr Ed's goals.