FORUMS > Football Chat > Tyson v Holyfield III |
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| Quote: carl_spackler "I agree he'd not be 2nd, but I'd go further than top 10 and say top 5.'"
[iMaybe [/iat his peak but I doubt it.
I just think his reputation was built off being fed loads of petrified stiffs by Don King.
Many people will point to Buster Douglas's victory over Tyson as the turning point but I believe it our own Frank Bruno who showed the vulnerability in Tyson's chin before Bruno retreated and got pummeled.
I just don't think Tyson would last even 2mins with the George Foreman that annihilated Frazier for example.
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| Quote: General Zod. "[iMaybe [/iat his peak but I doubt it.
I just think his reputation was built off being fed loads of petrified stiffs by Don King.
Many people will point to Buster Douglas's victory over Tyson as the turning point but I believe it our own Frank Bruno who showed the vulnerability in Tyson's chin before Bruno retreated and got pummeled.
I just don't think Tyson would last even 2mins with the George Foreman that annihilated Frazier for example.'"
Plenty of fighters were paired with puddings at times, including the likes of Louis and Marciano. It's often the way boxers develop specific aspects of their style.
He quite probably wouldn't have lasted more than a few rounds with Foreman in his prime, but then who did? We'll never know though, and what you have to remember is that whilst as you say Tyson had his weakness exposed for others to exploit, Foreman quit as soon as Ali had shown everybody how it could be done. Maybe if he'd continued, 1or 2 others would have followed this up and he wouldn't still have such an aura of dominance for people to look back on.
For me, Ali is out on his own as number 1, and then you have a handful vying to be runners up, including Foreman, Louis, and Tyson. I really wish there was more footage of Jack Johnson too.
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| Quote: carl_spackler "Plenty of fighters were paired with puddings at times, including the likes of Louis and Marciano. It's often the way boxers develop specific aspects of their style.
He quite probably wouldn't have lasted more than a few rounds with Foreman in his prime, but then who did? We'll never know though, and what you have to remember is that whilst as you say Tyson had his weakness exposed for others to exploit, Foreman quit as soon as Ali had shown everybody how it could be done. Maybe if he'd continued, 1or 2 others would have followed this up and he wouldn't still have such an aura of dominance for people to look back on.
For me, Ali is out on his own as number 1, and then you have a handful vying to be runners up, including Foreman, Louis, and Tyson. I really wish there was more footage of Jack Johnson too.'"
Fair points but I don't think we've ever seen Tyson in the trenches apart for when Holyfield smashed him all over the ring and the other contenders you've mentioned would not fold so easily which is why I think he's no more than top-ten.
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| Quote: General Zod. "
I just think his reputation was built off being fed loads of petrified stiffs by Don King.
I just don't think Tyson would last even 2mins with the George Foreman that annihilated Frazier for example.'"
1. every single world champion that has ever been are fed on fighters that are far less classy than them its fact. used to be known as "the bum of month club"
2. saying that foreman would beat tyson in 2mins is quite ridiculous tyson was far far quicker than foreman! foreman beat people that had no footwork and just stood infront of him going toe to toe
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| Quote: chris_joynt's_barber "1. every single world champion that has ever been are fed on fighters that are far less classy than them its fact. used to be known as "the bum of month club"
2. saying that foreman would beat tyson in 2mins is quite ridiculous
Not at all - Tyson gets hit by Foreman and it's lights out.
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| Quote: General Zod. "Fair points but I don't think we've ever seen Tyson in the trenches apart for when Holyfield smashed him all over the ring and the other contenders you've mentioned would not fold so easily which is why I think he's no more than top-ten.'"
Tyson was waaay past his best by the time he fought Holyfield. We were talking about in his prime, otherwise it's an unfair comparison. It's hard to say whether the others would fold so easily. In the case of Louis, he never came up against anyone a dangerous as Tyson IMO (see cjb's reference to 'bum of the month club' - Louis and Marciano were probably the most criticised for this), and Foreman was also given plenty of fodder to plough through. Once he came up against someone who didn't crumple quickly in Ali, he had no idea what to do.
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| Quote: General Zod. "Not at all - Tyson gets hit by Foreman and it's lights out.'"
Yeah, I suppose it's as easy as that because it's not as if Tyson had a decent defensive style or anything.
Tyson and Foreman were both similar in that they were unbelievably strong over the first 6 rounds, but not really comfortable going much further. Neither or them were ever beaten in early rounds when at their best, so it's tough to say one would quickly overpower the other or even one would take it over the distance. Claiming Foreman in 2 minutes is just plain silly though IMO.
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| about 20 million each
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| Tyson is no way a top 10 heavyweight - top 15 maybe. People always talk about how good he was in his prime, but who did he beat in his prime? Spinks? A blown up light-heavyweight. Bruno - never an elite heavyweight. An Aincent Larry Holmes?
A prime tyson is possibly the most overrated fighter of all-time.
My top 10 heavyweights (in no order)
Joe Louis
Ali
Lewis
Holyfield
Holmes
Foreman
Fraizer
Dempsey
Tunney
Liston
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| Quote: Could you please change m "Tyson is no way a top 10 heavyweight - top 15 maybe. People always talk about how good he was in his prime, but who did he beat in his prime? Spinks? A blown up light-heavyweight. Bruno - never an elite heavyweight. An Aincent Larry Holmes?
A prime tyson is possibly the most overrated fighter of all-time.
My top 10 heavyweights (in no order)
Joe Louis
Ali
Lewis
Holyfield
Holmes
Foreman
Fraizer
Dempsey
Tunney
Liston'"
Are you serious?
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| Quote: Leyther_till_death "Are you serious?'"
Of course I'm serious!
Who did he beat???
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| 2005-06-11 Kevin McBride L TKO 6 10
2004-07-30 Danny Williams L KO 4 10
2003-02-22 Clifford Etienne W KO 1 10
2002-06-08 Lennox Lewis L KO 8 12
2001-10-13 Brian Nielsen W RTD 7 10
2000-10-20 Andrew Golota TKO after 2 for Tyson to an NC, due to Tyson testing positive for marijuana
2000-06-24 Lou Savarese W TKO
2000-01-29 Julius Francis W TKO 2 10x3
1999-10-23 Orlin Norris NC NC 1 10
1999-01-16 Francois Botha W KO 5 10
1997-06-28 Evander Holyfield L DQ 3 12
Tyson disqualified for twice biting Holyfield's ears, claiming he was retaliating to headbutting by Holyfield.
1996-11-09 Evander Holyfield L TKO 11 12
1996-09-07 Bruce Seldon W TKO 1 12
1996-03-16 Frank Bruno W TKO 3 12
1995-12-16 Buster Mathis W KO 3 12
1995-08-19 Peter McNeeley W DQ 1 10
1991-06-28 Donovan Ruddock W UD 12 12
1991-03-18 Donovan Ruddock W TKO 7 12
1990-12-08 Alex Stewart W TKO 1 10
1990-06-16 Henry Tillman W KO 1 10
1990-02-11 James Buster Douglas L KO 10 12
1989-07-21 Carl Williams W TKO 1 12
1989-02-25 Frank Bruno W TKO 5 12
1988-06-27 Michael Spinks W KO 1 12
1988-03-21 Tony Tubbs W TKO 2 12
1988-01-22 Larry Holmes W TKO 4 12
1987-10-16 Tyrell Biggs W TKO 7 12
1987-08-01 Tony Tucker W UD 12 12
1987-05-30 Pinklon Thomas W TKO 6 12
1987-03-07 James Smith W UD 12 12
1986-11-22 Trevor Berbick W TKO 2 12
1986-09-06 Alonzo Ratliff W TKO 2 10
1986-08-17 Jose Ribalta W TKO 10 10
1986-07-26 Marvis Frazier W KO 1 10
1986-07-11 Lorenzo Boyd W KO 2 10
1986-06-28 William Hosea W KO 1 10
1986-06-13 Reggie Gross W TKO 1 10
1986-05-20 Mitch Green W UD 10 10
1986-05-03 James Tillis W UD 10 10
1986-03-10 Steve Zouski W KO 3 10
1986-02-16 Jesse Ferguson W TKO 6 10
.
1986-01-24 Mike Jameson W TKO 5 8
1986-01-11 David Jaco W TKO 1 10
1985-12-27 Mark Young W TKO 1 10
1985-12-06 Sammy Scaff W TKO 1 10
1985-11-22 Conroy Nelson W TKO 2
1985-11-13 Eddie Richardson W KO 1
1985-11-01 Sterling Benjamin W TKO 1
1985-10-25 Robert Colay W KO 1 8
1985-10-09 Donnie Long W TKO 1 6
1985-09-05 Michael Johnson W KO 1 6
1985-08-15 Lorenzo Canady W KO 1 6
1985-07-19 Larry Sims W KO 3 6
1985-07-11 John Alderson W TKO 2 6
1985-06-20 Ricardo Spain W KO 1 6
1985-05-23 Don Halpin W KO 4 4
1985-04-10 Trent Singleton W TKO 1 4
1985-03-06 Hector Mercedes W TKO 1 4
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| Quote: airliebird9 "He beat everybody there was to beat at the time
Don't be ridiculous! He didn't beat Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Moorer. He didn't evern fight the likes of McCall, or Tommy Morrison.
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| Quote: Could you please change m "
A prime tyson is possibly the most overrated fighter of all-time.
quote]
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