I think there's an element of "If Greece/Denmark can do it so can England" about but I havent spoken to anyone who thinks that England are anything more than an average team playing with a bit of spirit.

I think England should rest Welbeck and Young against Italy. Carroll will give Italy nightmares at the back with no Chielinni

This.

Everyone was prepared to face the 'unbeatable' spain and most likely go out in the quarters. But now, all of a sudden they are playing a 'beatable' team and people are thinking ''hey, wait a second, we have a decent chance of getting to the semi's here''.

It's not that people are dismissing italy, it's just rightly or wrongly they feel we have a better chance against the azzuri than the spaniards.

England have been ugly. Real ugly. It's not pretty to watch.

But consider this: Holland have played better football than us. They've attacked more, created more chances, they arguable have better flair players going forward. They are going home now with nil points. England go through to the quarters top of the gruop.

Results > performances.

Amen to that. And Blatter. Get some of that from last night up you. Where were you this time 2 years ago. You anti English delusional old imbecile.

You are absolutely right, nobody has ever denied that. But when debating a match and the performance of a team, do you just accept that everything is brilliant when the performances aren't? We may as well not debate football anymore if it's just results that matter.

Correct. He should be concentrating on the fact that his linesman (presumably one of the top two in his respective Country) missed the fact that the guy was offside.

It says on SSN that the missing Ireland fan has been found dead in a canal according to the Polish authorities. Lets hope there was no foul play involved.

RIP.

Rest Welbeck?

Did he put in enough effort on Tuesday to require a rest?

Always put's a good shift in. I think Carrol offers something different, a strong physical centre forward will give them more to worry about.

I agree I've never seen anybody offer so little when not in possesion. He just walks around on his own. I don't buy into this he's playing well, I acknowledge he has come up with a cracking goal against Sweden but has done very little of note elswhere. Bit of passenger for me.

Agreed.

9 goals in 31 apps at club level too.

I think Welbeck's been worth his starting spot every time.

I never saw the Ukraine game, so I can't comment. IMO, the France game he done very little yet received rave reviews. I read/heard somebody saying he had great touch and really troubled the French, I left the game thinking the opposite, I thought his touch lead him into much tougher situations and he rarely threatened. Although, to be fair to Wellbeck, England never had any desire to create for him so he was left doing the donkey work.

In the game against Sweden, I can't recall him doing anything of greatness until his goal. His goal was decent, I don't believe he intended it but it looked brilliant so fair player.

I've spoken before about Wellbeck, I actually don't mind him and I liked the look of him when he was on loan at Sunderland. He's tall, quick and seemed to have more to his game than just raw attributes. Fergie obviously likes him but I do wonder about his end product, he seems quite clumsy, but maybe that will come with age.

I'm not fan of Welbeck, but he's done the job we've needed and for the future it's great experience for him. As for his goal I thought it was one of the best of the tournament and completely intended.