Utd were awful and did not deserve to win the game I thought. City should have a penalty in the first half too. Rooney is becoming like Ronaldo, everything goes through him, we desperately need some new players but we won't get any in January. A winger, an attacking midfielder and a centre back.

Not at all, it's just that for years we could only see the attitude of big-time charlies from afar. Experiencing it first hand is spew-inducing, and at times i don't think some of them realise just what they are saying.

Don't get me wrong, we've picked some fans up along the way who can go away and die for me, but they don't stand out as much as they do at the "Big 4". That quote earlier in the thread about modern football being w@nk, well the fans have played a huge part. And that's sad.

We've not played well all season. Once again the thing that let us down was our passing in the final third. Rafael was the best player on the field in the first half, and apart from his goal Rooney was pretty poor in the first half. Berbatov was quiet and Giggs was pretty poor.

Evra was lucky to not get a second yellow, Fagan was lucky to not get 4 or 5 yellows. Vidic and Brown played really well, and limited Hull to very few clear chances. Rooney played much better after his mistake, and produced a great pass for Berba's goal. Dawson was unlucky with the OG, he had to try clear it, felt a bit sorry for him, as he was probably Hull's best player on the day.

I don't think Hull deserved to get anything out of the game, apart from the penalty they didn't really look like scoring, they only had a couple of long range efforts. Tommy K still scares the $hit out of me when he was the ball at his feet, although Myhill made him look very composed on the ball with some of his efforts.

It was another win, but poor performance, yet we're still only two points behind Chelsea. Weird season so far.

Personally I think you're having a cry over nothing.

All Mark did was say that United picked up a routine win. They are the champions, they'd have been expected to win, and they won 3-1.

Quite simply there was no reason for you to throw your toys out of the pram.

Oh, and i forgot to add that "Big 4" supporters truly believe that their opinion is everything.

Thank you for emphasising the point.

I dont think its any secret that City's preferred choices were Mourhino, Hiddink or Wenger. I dont think they've appointed Mancini expecting to sack him in the summer, more that he's something of a gamble and they want a get out option.

I dont really think we'll get a clear view of his tactics until the injured/absent players are back. At the moment he's just making do with what he's got available.

I agree we looked short outwide yesterday with Valencia having a nightmare and Giggs not fully fit, it looks like the club are doing all they can to offload Tosic and Nani in the window. We're being linked with Ben Arfa in the french papers after he's fallen out with Mllie. I rememeber when he first came onto the scene and he looked like he had a big future in the game but has struggled the last couple of years.

Central midfield is a strange one for me as Carrick is a fine player when on his game but has been poor so far this season, Scholes has blown hot and cold and Fletcher has been solid the problem is there just doesn't seem to be any pace in the middle. I'm hoping that Hargreaves can comeback and show somekind of form which may give Carrick a bit more confidence going forward. We have a couple of attacking midfielders with alot of tallent already at the club but i think this season is too soon to bring them through.

As for signing a half when fit Ferdinand and Vidic are a great partnership with Evans and Brown great backup it's just freaky that this season all our injurys have hit in the same position which will probably never happen again. Who could we sign with quality but be happy to sit in the reserves as 5th choice half?

The Itallian press say we'll sign Sebastien Frey from Fiorentina in January but i'd be supprised at that.

Ben Arfa sounds a big of a handfull off the pitch, but £5m was mentioned, which is probably worth a punt - i think some of Obertans cameo's show how little Nani appears to have come on, one consistently makes the right pass, the right run and the right option, the other doesn't.

Agree the midfield can be somewhat one paced with little 'drive' - Carrick has bags of talent, but just doesn't produce it often enough, for me, especially when paired with Scholes.

Yeah he seems to come with a bit of baggage but rememeber the last Frenchman Fregie signed who came with baggage. Think he made the wrong choice staying in France when Fergie wanted him the other year as he seems to have let his game slide.

It's a strange one the midfield as it seems like we're in the middle of a transition period with Scholes and Giggs coming to the end and the youngsters who arn't quite ready for the first team just yet. From what i've seen of the youngsters coming through the likes Eikrem, Cleverley, Pogba, Petrucci and Morrison all look to have what it takes to make it at Old Trafford

I think that's a tad unfair on Carrick TBH. Sure he had a poor start to the season, but after a Fergie bollocking, he picked his form back up and was close to his very best before having to be shipped to centre back. He did pretty well there TBH, considering he was getting a different CB partner just about every two minutes.

He wasn't at his best yesterday don't get me wrong, but he was one of our better players. I agree that when paired with Scholes he isn't at his best, although this wasn't the case when he first joined us. For some reason Carrick always seems to be the one that gets all the criticism when United have an off day, when most of the time he's one of the better players. Yesterday, Giggs, Rooney, Berbatov, Valencia and Evra all had worse games than Carrick.

No way was it a routine win, up until Dawson scored the own goal we was right in it and had some decent chances at 1-1, we didnt deserve to lose 3-1 as we played some decent stuff at times but we didnt take our chances.

Hopefully Brown will play same formation/tactics at Bolton tomorrow night

As people from Hull can't seem to grasp basic definitions, here is the definition of rlroutinerl.

[iAn unvarying procedure.[/i - Or something which happens most of the time.

The Champions, who are second in the league should (and normally do) beat most other teams. That's why they're the Champions and near the top of the league. When the Champions are playing a team that are 2nd from bottom, they should (and normally do) win. Therefore, victory is routine for them.

Nobody has said the victory was easy, which is what yourself and Sexual Deviant seem to think Mark said.

i wasn't including the appearances at CB - rough job for anyone

I sometimes think he lacks belief in his own ability. He actually strode forward with the ball at his feet with some purpose at least once against Hull, which was nice to see as no one seems to do it much now.

Man Utd are favourites for the title for me. Their injury problems are huge and an obvious reason for them dropping points. Chelsea don't have anything like that excuse. With United's experience of a stronger 2nd half of the season I think they'll win a 4th title.

I thought we played well against Brum and deserved the 3 points on the balance of play, but it was one of them games where the ball just won't go in. Today I thought we were dreadful and for 70 minutes was hating on Ancelotti and his stupid diamond nonsense.

Brum had a goal wrongly ruled out for offside at the weekend but I think that Fulham's goal today was given when it should have been flagged. The goalscorer was 4 yards from goal when the ball was knocked down towards him and nobody was playing him on. It wasn't mentioned on Football First, my live feed or MotD so far but I've seen it a few times and can't see how it hasn't been picked up on.

rlMrs VDS very poorlyrl