Jim Beglin?

Jim was the one who said Messi is doing it all on his own whereas Rooney's reliant upon his good teammates.

To be fair to ITV, Messi has been creating far more goals for himself than the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo.

Messi is just on another level totally than Rooney and Ronaldo. I fully expect him to walk away with his second Balloon D'or. If Ronaldo is worth £80m, then Messi's buy out clause of £250m is more than reasonable.

Ignorance. Perfect example of why he's on ITV.


rlLiverpool

rlDon't I know you?rl

To say Messi isn't as reliant upon his teammates as Rooney is kinda daft but in ways obvious. Rooney is a striker, strikers don't score without service. Messi is a wide/free player, he does as he likes but it's having teammates as good as his that allow him to do this. If Barca weren't so comfortable in possession, then he'd spend most of his time stuck out wide to offer an outlet. He wouldn't get half of the quality ball he does, most say 'how do you stop Messi?' it's hard, but I'd try and stop Xavi and Iniesta first, stop the ball getting to him, but they're so good at it it's extremely tough. I remember us doing Barcelona at the Camp Nou and it was largely down to Sissoko in midfield utterly dominating the Barca players. Messi can obviously create goals by himself, but his teammates play just as big a part in his game as Rooney's do.

Messi is by far the best player in the world, the closest to him is Ronaldo but Messi is much more complete. Ronaldo is fantastic, he has as big a desire to win as anybody, but it's often individual accolades he wants, it's impressive to see how much he wants to win, but he's also very selfish and his attitude often overshadows what is one of the finest players you'll ever see.

Anyone else think there was a strong case for Mascherano being sent off? My liverpool supporting brother seemed to think it was a crazy suggestion despite the fact its pretty clear Valencia would have got his shot off before the defender could come across. As it happens I would ammend the rules to a yellow card if the offence takes place inside the penalty area and a red if it takes place outside.

Also regarding Rafa and his diving claim, Valencia is running at pace and the tug on his arm has twisted him to the point that he could no longer continue running in the direction of the ball with any sort of control so he was well within his rights to go down. His constant moaning and sarcasm are really starting to grate now.

IMO there was a covering defender so Mascherano wasn't the last man.

I think Mascherano actually fouled Valencia just outside the box, but it was so close I can understand why the ref gave it.



Benitez was just talking nonsense when he said Valencia dived. I agree with your comment about his arm being twisted.

Having a debate on another forum with a load of Man United fans who cant or wont admit, that Messi is a better player than Rooney. The best they can come up with is that Rooney is the better player because hes better defensively. Attacking wise there is nothing between the two apparantly and Rooney can do everything Messi can. :S

Put Messi in the Manchester United side and he wouldn't be as good as he is now.

Put Rooney in the Barca side and he wouldn't be as good as he is now.

They are both great player, but both great in different ways.

Messi is the present king because Barca triumphed in the CL last season, but that could change this year.

If Ferguson had gone up against Barca in the same way we did we might not have to suffer half of Britain tossing themselves off to Messi right now. But Fergie got big-headed, had a lesson and we now have to put up with the worship.

For all the histrionics over Barca, they aren't even leading the Spanish league. When they win the league and CL for the second time in a row then they can start worshipping Messi, but they could end up looking foolish if Barca win nowt.

People tug over Messi because, quite simply, he's the most gifted footballer on the planet. There is no doubting it, he's the out and out star of the best team in the world, he is on a different level to the rest of the field. Most people have thought this for a while now, Barca's success just cemented that, just like United's success in 2008 cemented Ronaldo's place as one of the greats of our generation. Messi is a stupendously good player, Rooney is nowhere near him and you can call me biased, but nobody comes near him. He's a truly special player doing special things every week, players like him come around once a generation, if that, I think every wet dream over him is more than justified.

Maybe it's also hard for most Liverpool fans to admit that an ex Everton and current Man United player is maybe as least in the same league as Messi,to claim the gap between Messi and Rooney is huge is just plain wrong,lets wait a few months to see what both players do on the biggest stage in the world.

Just because we wouldn't swap Rooney for anyone else doesn't mean we can't see the quality of other players. When Ronaldo was here, he was by far the greatest player in the world, but still everyone at United would've preferred to lose Ronaldo than Rooney, because Rooney brings more to the team than fancy dan stuff in the final third.

And TBF, we're hardly bothered whether he's English or not are we? Cantona is the king of Old Trafford, and Rooney will need to do a bit more to get close to Cantona's legendary status.

Messi is a class player, but if Barca fail to win the league / European Cup, he won't win the POTY this year, especially if United win the league / EC. The gap between Rooney/Ronaldo/Messi and the rest is huge, there's nobody else near them ATM, but the award for the best player will go to the player that has the most success this year.

Of course nationality has a bit of influence on how supporters see him. Just like with Becks, Rooney is England's star player, considering Old Trafford was effectively England's second home when Wembley was being built, the connection between England and your club is strong IMO, much stronger than the connection between England and our club anyway. It's hard to explain, but I don't think United fans would have took to Rooney so quickly had he been Nigerian or Mexican (just a random nation).

Rooney is a good player playing in the form of his life, but on pure ability, Messi is just so much better than anybody else. He can open a defence up with a pass, beat 5 men on an effortless sprint, he can score from inside and outside of the box, he can use both feet well and dribbles well with both feet, he links with players exceptionally and his anticipation is first class. Rooney is a top player, he's enjoyed a great season but he just isn't capable of the things Messi is capable of. It's what sets the likes of Zidane apart from other players in their generation, they have this other level of ability that sets them apart.

I think the biggest influence on the WPOTY award will obviously be the world cup, although I don't agree with that, we'll have a stronger indication as to who's the favourite after that.