I remember watching the Ryder Cup a few years back, Anthony Kim was whooping in front of Sergio Garcia throughout their round and Sergio was mentally battered. I thought it was a bit much from Kim, but it seemingly gave him an edge over his opponent.

I've watched basketball for years and trash talk is a huge part of that sport. For me, it's fantastic to see how far somebody will go for a mental advantage over an opponent. It seemed nasty to see because Holland were the favourites and the 'big boys', but Krul had to gain every advantage possible. You can be sure as hell talk like that goes on in every sport at nearly every level, it's got nothing to do with honour.

You're welcome to it.
Win at any cost.
I would have been surprised if I had any allies in my view.
Honour, what an old fashioned notion.
Sportsmanship ditto.

Roddy - I'm not going to go back through the thread because you might have taken a holiday that week, but was Chelsea's blatant timewasting from the first minute of our game at Anfield acceptable or unacceptable?

I thought the referee was utterly appalling with his control of Krul. Krul made it clear that he was going to absolutely take the urine from the start and he just stood there and let him.

Players have strict rules where they all need to stand and what they need to do. But now keepers can go for a walk while the his opponent is waiting? The keeper can just come forward for a chat?

Look forward to any shootouts in subsequent matches taking 3 times longer because keepers come up with increasingly stupid ways to put players off.

The referee should have ordered Krul back to his line as soon as he walked out. If Krul ignored it he should have booked him. If Krul continued he should have sent him off.

I don't blame Krul. I blame that moron of a ref.

They would have had to replace him. Normally the back up keeper would be used. As Krul was the back up keeper and the other keeper was substituted it would have had to have been an outfield player.

That would have been funny.

I am glad that someone else thought that it wasn't on, and that by his inaction the ref condoned blatant intimidation.
This world cup has seen some improvements in refereeing procedures, but the wrestling for example continues unchecked.
Does anyone know the stats for the number if fouls per game? It must be horrendously high, yet the number of bookings does not seem in parity.
So games are stop-start jokes at the moment.
Hunting season is in full swing......

I see Brazil are appealing against Thiago Silva's one game ban...

Hollands penalties were inch perfect. Literally. You would watch the reply and an inch either way would have seen it saved/missed. Impecable. I remember when england took 5 perfect penalties in 96.

........The germans took 6. Game over.

Van Gaal's received alot of praise, probably justified. But it was a massive gamble, could have gone either way. He's not god, but he has got a pair of massive testicles

The dutch were very unlucky not to score in normal time and ET, so in the end the result is just.

I think right now, I fancy holland to be champions, just.

I think they have the best balance between being a functional team, and having those world class players in the final 3rd required to make the difference at this level.

One thing you simply can't account for though, is Lionel Messi.

Its a nailed on Germany/Argentina final - Germany will come on all efficient as normal and simply grind Brazil down, which won't take much as they are mediocre. Take Neymar out of the equation, which has now happened, and Brazil are no better than the much criticised England.

Argentina v Holland is much closer to call, but simply the thought of Messi against a Dutch defence which was rocking against a very average Costa Rica attack, leads me to think they will sneak it by the odd goal.

You're comparing a bit of wasted time, when play was finished and only penalties were left to take, to blatant time wasting from the first minute? It's not really the same, is it? I don't recall anybody moaning after the game about how long the shootout taken. Is that your issue?

I didn't view what Krul had done as time wasting - I viewed it as trying to gain an advantage over an opponent. I couldn't really give a sh*t what Krul was saying to them, he was doing what he could to gain an advantage. Anybody that's played sports, watched live sports in person or sometimes even watched it live on TV, will know that things like this go on in nearly every sport at nearly every level. It might have intimidated them, but it all adds to the drama for me and I enjoy seeing the mental side of the game on show at the highest level.

For the record. I hate time wasting in play because I've been in stadiums and I've forked out £50+ for a ticket, only to have some t*t on a field waste my time that I've actually paid for. I've never seen a penalty shootout, but given that I'd already had 30 mins extra play, I wouldn't really be complaining about players wasting an extra 20 seconds or so for each penalty.

What Krul done wasn't dishonourable, it was competitive, fierce and very risky considering he could have looked silly if it didn't work. Almost every sport around has moments like that, I really don't know why you view it as 'intimidation' and, if you do, what's wrong with intimidation on the football field? A strong tackle is intimidating, should we outlaw them?

No, it's not my issue. I want to know whether you were accepting of Chelsea's blatant destroying of Liverpool's game plan as you are of Krul's.

I don't think you will have been. I'd imagine you were stamping your feet like Suarez was. But the problem for Liverpool was that technically Schwarzer wasn't time wasting at that point because the ball was in play. Schwarzer could have stood there for however long was left of the half if one of your players hadn't come and forced him to play it. In fact that's exactly what he would have done. And you'd have wet yourself with anger.



But the penalty taker is risking having the pen retaken if he stutters his run too much. Is the penalty taker allowed to run over the ball too to have a word? Can he just stand there for a minute and just take it when he feels like it? Can he go for a run all around the box before shooting? What if he dummies to shoot 3 times before taking it?

The ref will book a penalty taker for any of that and tell him to stop messing about.

Just like the ref should have last night.



If Chelsea had been going for a title and Liverpool time wasted to do our heads in then you would have been absolutely delighted.

When teams time waste and mess us around next season Mourinho will be livid about it. And he'll probably have a little smile and then shrug his shoulders when a journo questions him about it and calls him a hypocrit.

CFC pushed the game to its limits in your title winning party. You bottled it. No doubt that was one of the games you've hated most in your life. I think you'll have been angry that day. Krul was doing a similar thing last night. You weren't involved so you will applaud Krul, but if he was doing that against Liverpool there's no way you'd look at it the same.