All of those points are correct. The fact Walcott waves at Milner as if to say why did you break from the wall as soon as the shot goes past them says it all. A keeper has to trust his wall to do it's job while he covers the part of goal not protected by the wall.

If a keeper wants to cover all of the goal himself from a free kick then he wouldn't ask for a wall at all.

Do you watch England often? Cole has been one of, if not the best player for England over the last year. He's one of the very few who [iisn't[/i living off a reputation. He hasn't had the best of season's for Chelsea (by his standards) but has still done well. Baines has been in better form than Cole this season, didn't say anything otherwise, but to label Cole as 'rubbish' is plain stupid.

As for Wilshere, you do realise he's 19 and has just finished his first full season in the top flight? I don't know why anyone would be asking a 19-year-old winning just his 5th cap to be controlling a midfield at international level with two far more experienced players alongside him. You say he has a lot of learning to do before he's ready for England; please name me the players' you'd have in front of him. As a nation, we have a distinct lack of players' who are comfortable in possession, yet you'd happily remove one of the limited number we actually have from the side as he's 'rubbish'? Madness. Almost as mad as the guy on the 'Your England 11' thread who wouldn't pick Rooney in his side.

I think you're getting expectations mixed up with delusions.



What I meant was: Everton aren't expected to win a trophy every year, I'm sorry, but they aren't. There is little investment in the club to justify those expectations. Everton fans want improvement every year, as do fans of every club, but to put Everton's targets into perspective by comparing them to those of the top 5/6 clubs, the drop off in expectations is evident. They have a demanding fan base, as do most clubs, but you don't have the media demanding improvement/results, largely because you don't spend the money to command that sort of attention.

As for the top 4 thing, Everton have always had a solid side under Moyes. You will always have a strong spine of players, but Moyes' inability to spot a top striker (I may be being harsh there, but if you compare his results with strikers compared to other positions, he's invested quite a bit and hasn't really been rewarded) has generally held you back; however, bridging that gap is a lot more challenging than it looks. On paper, it looks like 6 points (this year the gap between 4th and 5th was 6), but over the course of the season, that gap could be two/three signings. We were 10 points off 4th this year, many feel that we only need a few quality players and we're back in there, but I'm of the belief we need at least 8 players coming in this summer, and even then I feel we'll need to gel as a side before we can put on a 9 month challenge for the top 4.

Everton are a good club that don't try to live beyond their means, but if Moyes left for a similarly placed club that would give him money to reach higher targets, I'm unsure how he'd do, as the gap between the Champions League and 'the rest' is a lot harder to bridge than it looks on paper.

Roddy B, being realistic, Everton wouldn't have much of a chance of unearthing a real gem of a striker on a couple of points. I very much doubt they have an international scouting network, plus, when there is a potential star to be identified, it is always the strikers who go for top dollar, even just for paying for potential attracts big money. They are goosed on both counts.

I can see Moyes leaving, as much as Everton have been loyal to Moyes, he has rewarded them with the same and then some. I see the challenge of getting Villa into to a Champions League spot the kind of thing he owuld relish, even moreso knowing he didn't have the spending capacity o their peers.

On a side note, it is interesting to read thar 'arry is linked with Joe Cole and Scott Parker in today's papers. What is his obsession witn=h midfielders?

May sound odd, but, I think I once remember reading something about Everton forging a partnership with the makers of Football Manager. I'm pretty sure the owners/original creators are Everton fans, so they allowed the club to use their worldwide scouting database. Not trying to say they do have a strong scouting network, just thought I'd mention it, just in case anybody could back it up.

Anyway, I think the problem also stems a little deeper other than 'not finding talent'. I personally feel Moyes struggles to get the best from forwards, he very often just asks them to be 'willing' and lead the line, preferring to get his goals from the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Osman and co. He's even played Cahill up front in the past which sort of worked, it reminded me a little of the old Roma formation under Spalletti, where he played Totti up front on his own and decided to pack his midfield and get goals from there, but the stupendous Totti still scored loads.

I know all about delusions, I've spoke to enough Liverpool fans over the years





A brilliant post mate, very true. Maybe it's because of these 'delusions' that you speak that I can't see why Moyes would want to leave for someone like Villa but someone as an outsider or impartial it seems to be a decent move. Moyes is a very ambitious manager, IMO, and really wants to make it at the top level which is why I questionned you saying he could sit here for years and steadily increase his reputation without ever really excelling. I think he's a manager with big ambitions and probably looks up to the like of Ferguson and wants to achieve some of the things he has in the game. Until he's given a big pot of money and allowed to really test himself in the transfer market and at the top end of the league I don't think we'll ever be able to judge how good a manager he can/will be. I think the fact that us finishing around 7th/8th is seen by the media and those outside the club as a good season sums up where the club is at the moment. You're right, there's no pressure of media expectations because we have little money to spend and are highly unlikely to spend big anytime soon, which as a fan is really frustrating.

You made a good point in a later post about Moyes and his strikers, he's never really been able to bring in a top quality striker and build a side around them. Yakubu aside his striker choices have been low key or players coming to the latter stages of their career i.e Beckford and Saha. He loves to build a midfield of hard working players who can attack and bring goals too, he loves to play Cahill of the front man and has said many times he wants more goals from midfield. I think defensively and midfield (providing no one leaves) we have the basis for a very good top 6 team, a new striker - who can score regular and we may be able to challenge higher at times during the season but without a big, deep squad we're unlikely to be able to challenge all season.

A year on from the World Cup and nothing has changed, same old players who have let us down time after time and still don't have their positions under threat. It's time we finished their international careers and gave the new younger lads a chance before the Euros.

The past few games who have been the stand out players? Bent, Young & Wilshere - the new younger players. Speaks volumes.

What we're all saying is that without investment i.e. financial backing for signings, Everton is a dead end job for Moyes. He's waited patiently for the money to arrive and it hasn't. How long is he prepared to wait whilst other managers' careers forge ahead? It feels as if he's waiting for the Manchester United job to come up but I can't see them chancing their arm on a guy who hasn't won anything outside of a bottle of bubbly.

I'm in agreement with the Everton fans that Villa is not really a step up. It is though a step to a club with better financial backing, solvency and possibly growth and it might be the best offer that he gets because he is unlikely to attract interest from one of the more successful clubs until he's done something that blows our socks off.

If we're being honest what's the difference between his success rate and Big Sam's? Moyes might coach more attractive football but the similarities are there i.e. more than treading water on a modest/limited budget. Perhaps the quality of his football makes him a more attractive option but there are questions over (as stated above) his ability to fashion a truly attractive team (and there are factors external to him that influence that I know). If you were the chairman of one of United/Chelsea/City/Arsenal (rule out Liverpool as he's not going there) you're unlikely to go for Moyes because he is still not done anything other than extract the very best out of modest resources which to me suggests he be framed in the context of 'has potential'. We don't know what he can do with decent financial backing and even then it's not like he's been perfect when he has splashed out.

Moyes has to aim at the second tier in the same way that Mark Hughes does. Everton may sit in that second tier results wise but they are currently closer to, if not at, the bottom of that tier in terms of financial backing. The question that must be going through his mind is how long is he prepared to sit and wait to be poached or for Everton to get some money. The longer he sits and waits without moving further up the table (and it's getting harder every single year) the more his stock gradually decreases and he becomes less and less a viable alternative for a team with money to spend.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about Chelsea lol.

The problem for Moyes is; his reputation is very very high, he's won personal accolades, he's been consistent and he's got over losing big players. He doesn't really need to step up, if you would consider Villa and their slight wealth a step up, that is. If he moves to Villa and turns them into a better outfit, great, but the chances of him turning them into a top 4 side are unlikely. Many are grooming Moyes for a top job already, with rumours 'Arry could be going for the England job in 2012, Fergie retiring is a realistic prospect soon and the Chelsea job will be a nice challenge for a year, he could well be in for a good chance at a top club sooner, rather than later, so letting the Villa 'train' pass won't really matter.

Me personally, I'd like to see Moyes go into Europe and try his hand in Germany or Italy, purely because (Italy at least) it would be better for his 'education' of the game. Germany because I feel it's a prosperous league that would allow him to develop better than the Premier League.

In the farce that is FIFA, Blatter brings in opera singer Placido Domingo as an advisor