Ignore them Rogues they are just looking to get a rise out of you

That's disgusting how's he got away with posting that

Please take that back as I haven't called him anything - others have admittedly - and have only ever asked RG polite questions which he ignores. Just as he is now ignoring offering the reasons that he's received bans.

I think you need to see through the victim game he plays relentlessly.

And i think you should refrain from coming on this forum and stick with redvee

It was a long long time ago that I was banned. IIRC it was something to do with Sean Long and I was merely recalling something in his book about his off field activities.

And I'll ask you again what offensive stuff have I posted on Red Vee?

Just wondering about the regular Saints fans thoughts on the Grand Final.

Specifically are there doubts over this team in a big game because I'm pretty sure 'bottlers' was being thrown around a lot after the loss to Warrington in the cup this year.

I was just watching highlights of the Wigan and Saints games last year and apart from maybe the first one they weren't even close. Has enough changed this year for Wigan to overhaul them? I've gained confidence in Wigan since they beat Saints a few weeks ago but this has reminded me how good saints can be, especially the playoff game last year.

Having said that there is a question mark over this saints team in big games. They didn't do it in 2018. 2019 lost to Wire in the cup final, beat Halifax in the semis. They won the Grand Final, fair enough, but they beat our worst team in ten years and Salford in the playoffs. Then this year they lost to Wire in the cup and lost to us with the top spot on the line.

I don't know if I've seen a performance as good as saints against us in the playoffs last year so I'm definitely not confident but I do thing there are plenty of question marks around this side still.

Well you did ask...........

I don't buy into the "bottlers" thing at all but I do have concerns about us tactically in close games. To say we bottle it would suggest we simply don't turn up in the big games. However I don't think that is true.

2020
League decider - 6 points in it with 9 mins left v Wigan.
Cup QF - 2 point game v Warrington.

2019
Wembley was a poor performance but we were still well in it with 10 mins to go before Clark scored.
Semi final - superb performance and result (more on that in a second) and a fairly comfortable GF win.

2018
Playoff semi final - Winning with 5 mins left
Cup semi v Catalans - awful

I'm not saying we played well in all of those games but out of the 7 of them in the last 3 years I would genuinely only say we bottled one of them and that was the Catalans cup semi final. Wembley last year at a push.

As you mentioned, that semi final performance against you last year was one of the most ruthless, dominant performances I have seen in a playoff game in years. Our confidence was sky high, we got on top early and we stayed there, not really giving you a sniff.

Our problems seem to arise when we don't get ahead early doors. I have said it before that we can run right over the top of most teams and get on top fairly comfortably. But as most Saints fans agree, we sometimes struggle with a Plan B and get impatient when we can't bully teams. I have highlighted Fages as a weak point for the last 2 years and I still stand by that. He doesn't have the magic or nous in big games to unlock the tightest of defences. He's a good solid player behind a dominant pack but he struggles to create anything himself more often than not. I've said it a hundred times this season that Aidan Sezer for example would take us to another level.
In the past I'd always be confident we would score if given 2 or 3 repeat sets on an opponents line but not anymore. We don't have lots of variety to our play at all and part of the reason for that is our Plan A is good enough 90% of the time and has been for the last 3 seasons. But I have seen us camped on an opponent's line this year and not really produce anything. That's my concern for Friday.

Having said that, I thought we showed great discipline and patience v Catalans. We handled that game much much better than the Wigan game a few weeks ago where we got sloppy and frustrated. If we can keep our completion rate high and keep our discipline with and without the ball then I fancy us. But Wigan will know how to rattle us and take their chances when they get them. I don't think you will try and blow us away early doors, I think you will try and frustrate us into forcing the play and coughing up errors.

Far too many "ifs" and "buts" to make a prediction. So many variables that could affect the game. Is Walmsley fit? Will Powell play? Will Wigan keep their heads? Will Grace get the wobbles again? Literally anything could happen.

But to answer you original question, yes I do have concerns about us in big games but that comes down to our reliance on Walmsley,etc getting on top in the middle, as opposed to some sort of mental frailty.

Ok, I'll stick to what you say.
Is calling Saints "perennial cheats" worse than "I f*cking hate Wigan"? Yes it is and I shouldn't have to explain it.

How am I twisting your words? You are literally justifying it with the excuse that some things (fewer and far less bad by your own admission) are said on here. How is that not justifying it?

Mate, you're an intelligent man. I shouldn't have to be explaining the meaning of words such as justify. Neither should I be accused of "twisting your words YET AGAIN" when it's clear as day that in no way am I. You said to NK on another thread "you're better than this". I would point out the irony but, again, I shouldn't need to.

I give up with you mate. You're making it your life's work to prove me wrong. I give up. You can have your point. You are forever spinning what I say to suit your agenda. I have no energy for it. At no point have I tried to justify or excuse anything. I made a comment to someone who was comparing the two forums and I said I don't think there is a massive difference and you get good and bad on both. If you interpret that as me justifying someone's actions then perhaps it's you who needs the meaning of words explained pal.

No one has thrown any words my way. I don't post on that board so your analogy is way off.

A more relevant analogy would be that it would be like reading something on a publicly accessible forum and commenting on it. Oh, wait a minute....

I'm actually not. I'm correctly pointing out where you are mistaken. I agree with you when you're right as you well know.

If you write that I'm twisting your words because you're not justifying it when that's exactly what you are doing then I'm going to respond. Wouldn't you?

Don't take this the wrong way, mate, as I'm not insinuating you shouldn't; but why are you posting if you don't want to hear and debate the opposite viewpoint? You always have the option to end any debate by simply stopping posting. If you post then I assume I have the right of reply. That's how forums work, don't they?

I can take opposite viewpoint all day and debate opinion. But when you are telling me I am doing something I am not, I am going to argue the point. Me saying there are good and bad posters on both forums isn't justifying or excusing something that someone on redvee said. That is a massive leap you are making. To clarfiy:

1. Certain things that have been said about RG on redvee are wrong.

2. (and a totally separate point) Some stuff on here is wrong too.

That doesn't mean I am justifying the comments on redvee or that two wrongs make a right. Point 1 would stand with or without point 2. I really couldn't make it any clearer.

Cheers YG, as RL debate should be!

I agree generally, I think if Wigan stick with Saints and Walmsley (fitness permitting!) in the first 20, they have a great chance. In the game a few weeks ago, saints without Walmsley dominated the first 20/30, but didn’t convert it into points. Wigan then took over and then looked very dangerous in the 2nd half when spreading the ball wide.

It will be interesting to see how fit Walmsley actually is, as he is a massive game breaker between the two sides. It didn’t look good last week, with the physios having to attend to him two or three times during the game. Sadly, I wouldn’t be surprised if saints blew Wigan away in the first 20 and got into an unassailable lead, but I just feel Wigan are the fresher, more patient side over the 80 minutes.

I think he’s got an injury that would usually keep him out for a few weeks but it’s a final and he’ll play. His knee looked like it kept giving way when he was putting weight through it. I’m sure he’ll be strapped up and probably jabbed up and he’ll take his place but that may well limit how effective he can be. I’m sure he’ll be a target for us early doors and would’ve been regardless of any fitness doubts, so we should see early how fit he is.