FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Superleague going to 12 teams 2015 |
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 8147 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| It might be ok for us Wigan fans as we have a good club and a good team.
Those who finish in places 9-12 after 22 games then play Championship clubs.
What will happen to their crowds, increase, stay the same or decrease?
It's my bet that they'd decrease. So this plan will be financially damaging to the lower clubs.
For the last seven games (almost a quarter of the season) they'll be paying SL wages to players effectively playing in the Championship in front of Championship sized crowds. If these games are to be pay again and not in the season ticket then the attendances will really be adversly affected.
Wigan can go for the whole season with season tickets on the basis of finishing in the top four and getting four additional home games making 15. Even if they finished 5-8 then there's still 14 home games. Lower end clubs can't do this and they are the ones in financial difficulties now.
I do think that by the time the next broadcasting contract is due another new system will be introduced.
The vote for a reduction of SL down to 12 was unanimous. No wonder.
IL and his mates will probably have the majority when this happen as the two relegated will probably be from the Wood/Hetherington axis. The abstainer will probably come on board when this is voted, Saints may do as well.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2797 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
39978_1327618193.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39978.jpg |
|
| Quote: Father Ted "It might be ok for us Wigan fans as we have a good club and a good team.
Those who finish in places 9-12 after 22 games then play Championship clubs.
What will happen to their crowds, increase, stay the same or decrease?
It's my bet that they'd decrease. So this plan will be financially damaging to the lower clubs.
For the last seven games (almost a quarter of the season) they'll be paying SL wages to players effectively playing in the Championship in front of Championship sized crowds. If these games are to be pay again and not in the season ticket then the attendances will really be adversly affected.
Wigan can go for the whole season with season tickets on the basis of finishing in the top four and getting four additional home games making 15. Even if they finished 5-8 then there's still 14 home games. Lower end clubs can't do this and they are the ones in financial difficulties now.
I do think that by the time the next broadcasting contract is due another new system will be introduced.
The vote for a reduction of SL down to 12 was unanimous. No wonder.
IL and his mates will probably have the majority when this happen as the two relegated will probably be from the Wood/Hetherington axis. The abstainer will probably come on board when this is voted, Saints may do as well.'"
At the minute the teams who will likely be finishing 9-12 are the teams who aren't currently reaching the POs, so they will be going from a guaranteed 13 home games to a guaranteed 14. It's not like all SL fixtures generate massive attendances, games like Featherstone v Castelford would get larger attendances than London v Cas, for example. There's no reason why the clubs can't provide STs that are valid right up to the end of the weekly rounds, so there's at least one extra fixture with walk-up attendances generating revenue that would not happen under the current system. A couple of those games would likely be against teams who were pushing for promotion so would likely bring a decent following. 2 of the "Championship teams" would likely be 2 teams that are currently in SL.
What would the attendance of Wakefield v Bradford be in August under the current system, with one team in 11th and the other in 12th, neither with anything to play for, for example? Would the figure be higher or lower if both were playing knowing that they could slip out of the top 4 of the middle tier and miss the cut for the following season's SL. It's all guesswork atm, but at least the new system ensures meaningful games for the majority of the 24 teams invloved for the full season. That's better than we have now.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 8147 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6858 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2019 | Nov 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
22/03/2013
Get LEIGH outta wigan: |
|
| Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"
A Widnes fan on the VT said he payed £167 for his season ticket,i think that works out at less than £13 a game.
is that really a good example?
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 14395 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2024 | May 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"
I think the games after the split are going to be the big unknown as to what happens crowd wise.
It may be a top four club has secured it's top four slot before the split or a game into it. Equally a team placed 8th may not have a realistic chance of making the four. Unless these games are part of the season ticket for the entire league season I can't see how they are going to get the revenue they would otherwise.
I think there is a danger the games after the split end up as popular as the early rounds of the playoffs are at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 8147 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Agree with you Dave O.
They could even be a popular as Challenge Cup games between SL and Championship clubs. Also agree that this is an unknown, it shouldn't be though.
SL clubs should know by now what their plans are re a top 1-4 place, 5-8 and 9-12. To vote for this they should know what the revenue consequencies are and have it all worked out.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 32357 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
3076_1671446335.jpg SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg |
|
| Quote: Father Ted "Agree with you Dave O.
They could even be a popular as Challenge Cup games between SL and Championship clubs. Also agree that this is an unknown, it shouldn't be though.
SL clubs should know by now what their plans are re a top 1-4 place, 5-8 and 9-12. To vote for this they should know what the revenue consequencies are and have it all worked out.'"
Me too.
There will be an advert some time this season for all clubs.
"PR position at X R.L. Club"
Degree in bull a primary requirement, you'll need it.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2797 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
39978_1327618193.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39978.jpg |
|
| Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"
The SL playoffs, that should be the biggest games of the season, are currently poorly attended compared to the league fixtures. So it wouldn't just be because fans didn't want to pay to watch "championship games" why there would be a drop in attendances. RL fans are notoriously bad for not attending games that don't count on their ST, which is why I think the clubs will have to sell the tickets to count for all games before the POs. Otherwise all teams will see a drop in attendances from the ST-valid games, not just the bottom 4 of the top division. It's not like these clubs are generating staggering attendances anyway, and will have one or 2 extra fixtures compared to now.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 33944 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2016 | Mar 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
9005.jpg kcab sfrawdder
Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity
Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike
SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg |
|
| What happened to your attendances in 2006 ?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15453 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
|
| Quote: Starbug "What happened to your attendances in 2006 ?'"
They went up, oddly! Every game mattered and could go either way and the atmosphere was the best it's ever been at the JJB/DW.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1704 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2023 | Dec 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
61641_1313077623.png [color=#FF0000:18ol665r]A Pie is for life, not just a Wembley Final[/color:18ol665r]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_61641.png |
|
| Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"
if you finish 9-12 then it is more likely that the team in 9th and 10th will get 2 more home games against the other super league clubs and those in 11th and 12th get 1 more home game against SL clubs (after all there will still be 6 all SL ties in the middle 8 after the split)
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1979 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
|
| All of this is predicated on the fact(!) that the playoffs will be much shorter. Have Sky agreed to this?
It seems to me that Sky make a big deal about the current play off format. As has been noted above, the 8/8/8 split will have a lot of dead rubber games, then you go straight into a shortened playoff series. Do Sky really want this?
I'm not an advocate of the current playoff systrem by the way, but that's immaterial. Is this the best way to sell the game to Sky? Without Sky's money the game would be dead. The BBC may deliver greater audience figures but have no money, and we don't know if BT are interested, though there is no indication that they are.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2797 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
39978_1327618193.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39978.jpg |
|
| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "All of this is predicated on the fact(!) that the playoffs will be much shorter. Have Sky agreed to this?
It seems to me that Sky make a big deal about the current play off format. As has been noted above, the 8/8/8 split will have a lot of dead rubber games, then you go straight into a shortened playoff series. Do Sky really want this?
I'm not an advocate of the current playoff systrem by the way, but that's immaterial. Is this the best way to sell the game to Sky? Without Sky's money the game would be dead. The BBC may deliver greater audience figures but have no money, and we don't know if BT are interested, though there is no indication that they are.'"
How are there more dead rubber games? And there is no drop in number of games despite a shorter PO series. The top 8 division is effectively a mini-league qualifier for the POs. Then there is the actual play offs with a much more sensible number and format than there are currently. The teams that finish 5-8 have 7 games to force their way in to the top 4, these games should be better attended and just as fiercely contested as current PO games are but without allowing teams to put the cue on the rack early, finish lower down the table and make a late push for the GF.
All the teams in the middle 8 will be playing for 5 spots for a chance to be in the following season's top division. The only games that won't have a lot of interest will be the teams in the 3rd tier that aren't fighting relegation or involved in the mickey mouse shield or whatever it is going to be called.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1979 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
|
| Quote: WARRIORCRAIG "How are there more dead rubber games? And there is no drop in number of games despite a shorter PO series. The top 8 division is effectively a mini-league qualifier for the POs. Then there is the actual play offs with a much more sensible number and format than there are currently. The teams that finish 5-8 have 7 games to force their way in to the top 4, these games should be better attended and just as fiercely contested as current PO games are but without allowing teams to put the cue on the rack early, finish lower down the table and make a late push for the GF.
All the teams in the middle 8 will be playing for 5 spots for a chance to be in the following season's top division. The only games that won't have a lot of interest will be the teams in the 3rd tier that aren't fighting relegation or involved in the mickey mouse shield or whatever it is going to be called.'"
The more league games you have the more points at stake the more likelihood that by games 28/29/30 the top 4 are sorted. It's basic maths. The more points that are at stake the more the league becomes stretched. Why do we need a pre-qualifier for the playoffs - that's what the regular season should be for. And you haven't attempted to answer my query about whether Sky are interested in a reduced playoff series?
You are happy that there will be more intensity in the season all the way to the playoffs. But has anyone considered what the players union think about all this? By the time they get to the GF each team will be knackerred! - NRL players have played 22 league games plus playoffs. SL players will have played 30 league games plus Challenge Cup plus playoffs.
I just don't see how anyone will be interested in the second teir games. Effectively full time pros playing against part timers. I'd put money on it now that Super League will start with the same 12 the following season.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 8147 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| What does bother me is that the bottom clubs in SL have voted to ditch two fixtures against SL opposition for three matches versus Championship clubs.
Have they done their crowd projections and likely revenue consequencies?
If they haven't then they could find themselves in all sorts of money troubles.
|
|
|
|
|
|