I've defended MS this season against what I've felt was some OTT criticism, but I'll stick to my view that he serviceable rather than outsstanding on Friday.

I think it's interesting that people in the game such as the England coach, the Wigan coach and the journalists who picked the Super League Dream Team seem to rate him more highly than a section of the Wigan fan base. I always think of Dave Hadfield's comment that people in Wigan think they know more about Rugby League than anyone else, in fact a new born baby in Wigan knows the rules of the game better than him!!!

You're talking about last season, when yes he probably was the form England 7 in the last 3 months of the season and rightly got picked for honours but this season he has been massively below par and his form has regressed (not the only Wigan player I might add).

Compare his try assists for example, over half of what he assisted last year.

This year was the year he should've stepped up and proven that he can be our 7 for years to come and shown he can organise us without Blake Green but he's been steady at best. Williams' running, passing and short kicking game is already superior, despite those things being what Matty was excelling at last year. He will be nowhere near the England team or Dream Team this year and there's not even been another 7 that has had an amazing season. He's just played himself out of contention.

See - dyou feel better for that? No need for the abuse. Perfectly reasonable points. FWIW I think Danny Brough and Todd Carney will be in the Dream Team but I think Matty will keep his England place, especially if we get to Old Trafford.

Wigg'n sums up my feelings exactly. MS was England #7 on merit, and did fine for us in the World Cup. But this season he's been a disappointment. I expect he thinks so himself.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that Williams could or should shoulder all the responsibility, and he hasn't thus far shown that he has the long-kicking game anyway.

As for England and the Dream Team, the options are indeed a bit thin on the ground. Who's been the best English #7? Luke Gale, maybe?

Todd Carney surely hasn't got enough matches under his belt to be considered for the Dream Team; you shouldn't be entitled to a place on reputation only.

Smith has been average playing behind a very below average pack, until last Friday.
I thought him and Williams controlled the middle of the field and their short kicking game caused Wire all sorts of trouble.
As for our Props, they were excellent Friday night. From behind the sticks what was obvious was the speed of the tackle and the fact that we are now getting 3 men in the tackle from minute 1 to 80. The ferocity of the Wigan tackling was something Wire couldn't cope with.
I do think Waney has got his five best props sorted now with Tautai and Tatrick missing out.
Maybe Sutton might not yet be able to manage a game a week until the end of the season and that's the only reason I'd have Tautai or Patrick back in the squad.

My thoughts exactly. And well done for deftly getting this thread back on topic.

Fantastic performance on Friday which was done through forward domination. I thought Tony Clubb was outstanding and Sutton, Flower, Tomkins, Farrell and Lockers went well also.

I've got to be honest and say as for Crosby and Mossop, I'm just not liking them at all. Mossop for me isn't playing anywhere near well enough to warrant a first team selection, he was invisible for the most part on Friday. Crosby - yeah I can see why some like him but I just don't think he's good enough to be a long term Wigan prop.

Having said that, SW made the right call in dropping Tautai and Larne Patrick - for the life of me I can't see why he brought in Tautai, he's utter garbage. If we could I'd ship out Tautai and Mossop and bring in 2 new props in the mould of a Chris Hill/Ashton Sims/Alex Walmsley. I think 2 props in that kind of mould really would push us to the top of the league.

Tautai is ordinary and Mossop useless. As I've said before, hard to imagine than an Academy lad wouldn't offer at least as much as he does. They could hardly do worse.

But yeah, big, big improvement from the forwards in general on Friday. I was delighted and proud to be there.

Which once again was the start of another very enjoyable weekend in Wigan for me. Shame about the weather, though; just torrential on the M6 Toll going home on Sunday afternoon. Good job I decided against taking the bike!

After lengthy analysis, I've come to the conclusion that Tariq is the only one of the Sims brothers who's much good.

I don't think Tautai has been as poor as many on here suggest. The only really error strewn game he has had was at Wire when he got concussed. IMO he should not have come back onto the field. His discipline is very good for a forward. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/6334

I don't think Tautai has been as poor as many on here suggest. The only really error strewn game he has had was at Wire when he got concussed. IMO he should not have come back onto the field. His discipline is very good for a forward. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/6334

Have we had a player recently that's regressed as much as Crosby over the space of a year/18 months? He's a shadow of the player he was - an absolute liability in defence at times and gets through limited work with the ball.

Meanwhile I thought Mossop was very good last night and Clubb was his usual self.

Bateman is still the best prop, second row, centre and loose forward (all at the same time) we have at the club.

Also Tautai should cop a well deserved ban for that stupid tackle.

Regarding Mossop, i thought he was poor before going to Aus, and has been relatively poor since his return. However, as a bloke with buggered shoulders, soon needing one to be replaced, i am pleased he has gotten through a season unscathed. I hope we see a bigger improvement next year as his shoulders get stronger, and his confidence improves.

Crosby has been a mystery to me.. As you say, looked to be a potential world beater 18 months ago. Still time tho, props mature later.