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Quote: Aboveusonlypie "Have sky been consulted about the restructure? The current deal runs until the end of 2015. It seems a strange way to treat your broadcasting partner(s).

Example; after the 8/8/8 split who owns the tv rights to the second group of 8? Is it Sky or Premier Sports? Super League clubs playing Championship clubs.

Wouldn't it have made sense to leave the restructure until the end of the current deal and renegotiate on the basis of presenting a new competition?

Also on another point - more games with fewer teams in the top tier means more games involving the top clubs. As has already been stated we could play Saints twice in the regular season once in the MW once in the cup then once after the split and then twice in the playoffs. That goes also for other fixtures. There is such a thing as overkill. Playing Saints Leeds Wire and Huddersfield 4 or 5 times a season just devalues those games. Any loss can be avenged in a few weeks thus affecting the intensity. My belief is that such familiarity will drive down standards not raise them. The great thing about the derby is that you look forward to it. Playing Saints five or six times negates that.

Proof; look at the playoff attendance at Wigan in 2011 against Saints.'"


That's a good point about the tv rights particularly for the middle 8 as it will affect the first season at least. You would hope that the RFL were speaking to both Sky and PS about that issue.

Re repeat fixtures you can't play anyone twice in the playoffs under the new structure as there are only semi finals and a grand final. Play a team once in the playoffs and one team is in the final and the other is out. You could play the same team six times (twice in first phase, once at MW, once in second phase, once in playoffs and once in cup) but that can also happen now (twice in league, once at MW, twice in playoffs and once in cup). While having 3 or 4 league fixtures may be a problem to market if fans aren't going to attend a playoff semi or GF or a knockout cup game then that is probably more to do with the fan themselves (interest in particular comp/ability or willingness to pay for outside of ST games) rather than the number of times the opponent has been faced already.

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Quote: wigan pie man "it all sounds complicated to me. Am i missing something here?

12 team league

Teams split after the 23 games into the three 8's.

Taking the top 8, they play everyone else once, so the regular season is 23+7=30 games.

The play-offs then start for the top four which means two more games if you get to or win the Grand Final which is 32 in total as opposed to the current 31.

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The more I read and understand the better it sounds to me.

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It might be ok for us Wigan fans as we have a good club and a good team.
Those who finish in places 9-12 after 22 games then play Championship clubs.
What will happen to their crowds, increase, stay the same or decrease?
It's my bet that they'd decrease. So this plan will be financially damaging to the lower clubs.
For the last seven games (almost a quarter of the season) they'll be paying SL wages to players effectively playing in the Championship in front of Championship sized crowds. If these games are to be pay again and not in the season ticket then the attendances will really be adversly affected.
Wigan can go for the whole season with season tickets on the basis of finishing in the top four and getting four additional home games making 15. Even if they finished 5-8 then there's still 14 home games. Lower end clubs can't do this and they are the ones in financial difficulties now.
I do think that by the time the next broadcasting contract is due another new system will be introduced.
The vote for a reduction of SL down to 12 was unanimous. No wonder.
IL and his mates will probably have the majority when this happen as the two relegated will probably be from the Wood/Hetherington axis. The abstainer will probably come on board when this is voted, Saints may do as well.

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Quote: Father Ted "It might be ok for us Wigan fans as we have a good club and a good team.
Those who finish in places 9-12 after 22 games then play Championship clubs.
What will happen to their crowds, increase, stay the same or decrease?
It's my bet that they'd decrease. So this plan will be financially damaging to the lower clubs.
For the last seven games (almost a quarter of the season) they'll be paying SL wages to players effectively playing in the Championship in front of Championship sized crowds. If these games are to be pay again and not in the season ticket then the attendances will really be adversly affected.
Wigan can go for the whole season with season tickets on the basis of finishing in the top four and getting four additional home games making 15. Even if they finished 5-8 then there's still 14 home games. Lower end clubs can't do this and they are the ones in financial difficulties now.
I do think that by the time the next broadcasting contract is due another new system will be introduced.
The vote for a reduction of SL down to 12 was unanimous. No wonder.
IL and his mates will probably have the majority when this happen as the two relegated will probably be from the Wood/Hetherington axis. The abstainer will probably come on board when this is voted, Saints may do as well.'"


At the minute the teams who will likely be finishing 9-12 are the teams who aren't currently reaching the POs, so they will be going from a guaranteed 13 home games to a guaranteed 14. It's not like all SL fixtures generate massive attendances, games like Featherstone v Castelford would get larger attendances than London v Cas, for example. There's no reason why the clubs can't provide STs that are valid right up to the end of the weekly rounds, so there's at least one extra fixture with walk-up attendances generating revenue that would not happen under the current system. A couple of those games would likely be against teams who were pushing for promotion so would likely bring a decent following. 2 of the "Championship teams" would likely be 2 teams that are currently in SL.

What would the attendance of Wakefield v Bradford be in August under the current system, with one team in 11th and the other in 12th, neither with anything to play for, for example? Would the figure be higher or lower if both were playing knowing that they could slip out of the top 4 of the middle tier and miss the cut for the following season's SL. It's all guesswork atm, but at least the new system ensures meaningful games for the majority of the 24 teams invloved for the full season. That's better than we have now.

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If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.

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22/03/2013 Get LEIGH outta wigan:



Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"


A Widnes fan on the VT said he payed £167 for his season ticket,i think that works out at less than £13 a game.

is that really a good example?

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Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"


I think the games after the split are going to be the big unknown as to what happens crowd wise.

It may be a top four club has secured it's top four slot before the split or a game into it. Equally a team placed 8th may not have a realistic chance of making the four. Unless these games are part of the season ticket for the entire league season I can't see how they are going to get the revenue they would otherwise.

I think there is a danger the games after the split end up as popular as the early rounds of the playoffs are at the moment.

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Agree with you Dave O.
They could even be a popular as Challenge Cup games between SL and Championship clubs. Also agree that this is an unknown, it shouldn't be though.
SL clubs should know by now what their plans are re a top 1-4 place, 5-8 and 9-12. To vote for this they should know what the revenue consequencies are and have it all worked out.

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SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled. For 27 - 0 you get a trophy For 75 - 0 you get sod all. Wigan had eight in a row Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg



Quote: Father Ted "Agree with you Dave O.
They could even be a popular as Challenge Cup games between SL and Championship clubs. Also agree that this is an unknown, it shouldn't be though.
SL clubs should know by now what their plans are re a top 1-4 place, 5-8 and 9-12. To vote for this they should know what the revenue consequencies are and have it all worked out.'"


Me too.

There will be an advert some time this season for all clubs.

"PR position at X R.L. Club"
Degree in bull a primary requirement, you'll need it.

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Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"


The SL playoffs, that should be the biggest games of the season, are currently poorly attended compared to the league fixtures. So it wouldn't just be because fans didn't want to pay to watch "championship games" why there would be a drop in attendances. RL fans are notoriously bad for not attending games that don't count on their ST, which is why I think the clubs will have to sell the tickets to count for all games before the POs. Otherwise all teams will see a drop in attendances from the ST-valid games, not just the bottom 4 of the top division. It's not like these clubs are generating staggering attendances anyway, and will have one or 2 extra fixtures compared to now.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



What happened to your attendances in 2006 ?

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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: Starbug "What happened to your attendances in 2006 ?'"

They went up, oddly! Every game mattered and could go either way and the atmosphere was the best it's ever been at the JJB/DW.

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[color=#FF0000:18ol665r]A Pie is for life, not just a Wembley Final[/color:18ol665r]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_61641.png



Quote: Father Ted "If a team finishes 9-12 and incorporates all games in season tickets then fans are paying for 11 SL home games and 3 Championship home games at 14 SL game prices.
A Widnes fan told me there's no way their fans would buy a full price SL season ticket the following year on that basis when they've paid for a season of SL and then end up watching Championship rugby.
On the other hand, if they go for an 11 game SL season ticket and then pay on the day for the Championship games their crowds will drop massively. Also would they charge SL walk up prices or Championship prices.
The clubs who are 9-12 face a drop in crowds, a drop in price per supporter and revenue loss that might well be unsustainable given they are still running a SL club infrastructure.'"



if you finish 9-12 then it is more likely that the team in 9th and 10th will get 2 more home games against the other super league clubs and those in 11th and 12th get 1 more home game against SL clubs (after all there will still be 6 all SL ties in the middle 8 after the split)

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All of this is predicated on the fact(!) that the playoffs will be much shorter. Have Sky agreed to this?

It seems to me that Sky make a big deal about the current play off format. As has been noted above, the 8/8/8 split will have a lot of dead rubber games, then you go straight into a shortened playoff series. Do Sky really want this?

I'm not an advocate of the current playoff systrem by the way, but that's immaterial. Is this the best way to sell the game to Sky? Without Sky's money the game would be dead. The BBC may deliver greater audience figures but have no money, and we don't know if BT are interested, though there is no indication that they are.

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