Slightly off topic, but related to the style we play. According to the rugby press yesterday (League Express) Wigan scored more tries from their own half than any other team in Superleague.

Not bad for a boring side eh!

Scoring trys wasn't a problem last year imo. We weren't boring and Noble did seem to take off the shackles of previous seasons.

Our inconsistancy in general but especially in defence was what cost us imo. If we looked at our defence in the 2 league games before the challenge cup semi against Leeds and Saints it was immense and looked unbreakable at times yet it fell apart when it really mattered.

Thats something that really needs looking at and listening to Maguire he is doing just that. He's said he likes his teams to defend tough and defend well and if he can get us doing that i'm confident we have enough attacking weapons to win plenty of games.

Agree completely, defence is the absolute corner stone of being a winning side - it was John Monie's mantra: Defence and field position. Hell respecting the ball was even Noble's mantra, we just didn't always execute it too well - often giving a silly penalty or a stupid knock on at crucial moments in crucial field positions, coupled with a missed tackle and we lost games we would have won comfortably if our defence had been up to scratch consistently for 80 minutes every game. I think we've also not done ourselves any favours with lack of a good kick on the 5th when defending in our own 30 to 40 metres, meaning we've often been staight back under the cosh again and the mistakes start to come in as the pressure increases.

Agree.

So why do we want to get rid of one of our best defensive players in Fielden?

I agree with Nicky Kiss's post on the previous page, that if Fielden can be signed on a realistic (lower) salary, then I would give him a two year deal.

I'm sure Phil Clarke did his usual 'statistics' rubbish at the beginning of one of the games and we were one of the bottom teams. I take them with a pinch of salt.

We were a boring team last season for the vast majority of games. Our home ground is like a library at times. The atmosphere generated reflected our play - poor.

I was looking back at some of our games earlier in the season on the Super League website & it shocks me just how poor we were. Tim Smith was and still is the worst defender I have seen in Rugby League. Darrell Goulding was caught out numerous times as well. We got our first win when Phil Bailey was moved to centre, but even he was found out at Harlequins with their first try of the game. Martin Gleeson was a very important signing.

Agreed Gleeson has helped us defensively and is rightly getting praise. He like Fileden will be on a "big wedge"

So why is Fielden getting the stick despite being one of our best defenders?
It's crazy.

On the Deacon / Smith thing,we need to be wary.

Smith missed 14% of his tackles last season, Deacon missed 18%. I'm hoping that Deacons organisational skills more than make up for his defence.

The point about Deacon was referring to our poor 4th/5th/ kick tackle option that SEB was referring to.

In regards to Stuart Fielden the issue will always be he has not replicated his outstanding form for Bradford at Wigan & that because he will be on a 'big wedge' people will be very unhappy about it. His defensive effort cannot be questioned, but his go-forward, leg drive, enthusiasm, presence and general intimidating aura that he used to have can be. He may have made the most metres in the squad but compare his stats this year to his stats in 2004 & there you have the reason people are upset with Fielden. There are so many factors as to why he has/has not replicated his Bradford form in his latter years at Wigan. I believe that years of playing 80 minutes at the top level has taken its tole on his body. He has deteriorated in that sense as he has gone from an 80 minute prop forward to an impact player from the bench. Stuart Fielden used to throw a hissy fit every time he was taken off by Brian Noble, but now he starts from the bench. This has led to people questioning his heart and desire to play for Wigan or the passion in his game. I'm not sure whether I agree with it - you do your bit for the team at the end of the day & follow the coaches instructions, but I can understand why he recieves some of the criticism he gets from frustrated supporters who just want to see the Stuart Fielden from his time at Bradford. Likewise I can understand those that back him up as he is still the best performing prop forward in our squad.

Gleeson needs to up his game next year just like Fielden, his defence has been important for us but he also needs to offer more going forward.

Players on big money have to be more than one trick ponies.

With regards to Fielden and the stats, firstly i am very suspicious of the engange stats some of them simply do not make sense and have been odd throughout the year, secondly they do not take into account dominant tackles where a player dominates the attacker. Fielden gets his body in the way but rarely dominates the tackle slowing the defender down.

Leon Pryce will often take the ball up on the second or third tackle and find his front as soon as he meets the defensive line, the defender gets credited with a tackle but Pryce has cleverly generated a quick play the ball and put his team on the front foot, so although the defender gets a tick newxt to his name the attacker has won the battle at the ruck.

Fielden at the very least needs to dominate attackers not just bring them down and be happy with a tick next to his name, and neither should we the fans.

Big money players have to perform to somewhere near there salary cap value as yet in my speculative opinion neither Gleeson or Fielden has although Gleeson is much closer than Fielden has been thus far.

My exact views to.

To me the higher you salary the more you should contribute towards the team, big money players are paid higher salaries and therefore should in return offer far more than your regular run of the mill player. As yet Fielden isn't fulfilling his reputation or justifying his salary, but like everyone I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt next year.

Gleeson has undoubtedly sured up are defense down his side but like everyone else I still feel he has a lot more to show us in offence to justify his rather large wage.

Eyes on both and daggers at the ready.

He was very lazy in defence, although IMO he more than made up for it in attack. The fact we had 3 very defensive back rowers alongside him helped a lot

Exactly.

You can carry a player like Hock with ease when playing alongside guys like Hansen, Bailey, Lockers and Fielden.

It becomes a problem when he has to defend alongside guys like Feka, Tim Smith and at times Joel Tomkins(who just seems to sleep in defence now and again).

Aye spot on

But now we have no Tim Smith, a fitter Feka so he's probably not going to be a liability in defence.

However I do agree about Joel. Not only does he go asleep, he gets dominated in tackles as well. Something he needs to work on if he wants to be in the 17 for me

On last years performances I personally do not think he would have been missed as much as Coley or Feka.

He is playing the role of the supporting which is not good enough, and sadly we cannot in the age of the cap, remove performance from wages.

The teams that succeed get value for money from there players Fielden has thus far not offered this.

Next year is really last chance saloon for his career, under a new coach and new regime at his age if he does not significantly improve i seriously think he will struggle to attract much attention from any other clubs for 2011 or beyond.