Irrelevant who signed who. Maybe Noble,maybe Lenegan or maybe a joint decision who knows. Personally i fail to believe that most of this team are Brian Noble type players,they are too small and not his style but thats another matter. What matters is why so many proven coaches are failing at Wigan with what seems like constant player revolts.

If its true they dont buy into Nobles tactics then whos tactics will they buy into? They didnt buy into Millwards either despite both these coaches proving that they know how to win things at their previous clubs. Looking further back it seems Raper had troubles with the players and further back still Endacott.

they arent the same players under all coaches !

all teams who are underperforming and are full of egos will have something to say about how to fix the problems

I know they are not the same players but do you honestly think it is normal for a club to suffer so many alleged player revolts?

You do not see this happening every other year at other clubs.

Maybe if the team carried out Nobles instructions instead of spitting the dummy out we might have 3 wins now.

I agree,

Tomkins does need game time and a chance to prove himself in the SL, but we've only had 3 games, don't you think that the Smith/Tommy partnership also needed/needs time to allow the two to gel?

ONLY been 3 games, I have no doubt Tomkins will have his day. My biggest fear is the fans. so many have put so much hope into a young lad who may not produce. Then what?

Considering Noble (within the first 3 games has already played
-McClorum
-J Tomkins
-Goulding
-Ainscough
-Pryce
-O Carroll

to say Noble doesn't give time to young players is very far off the mark.

We have a team of 'ok' players and some who are below parr. If people think the likes of Hansen, Lockers, Hock are anything above 'ok' then I'm glad they're not in charge.

Hansen-good at tackling up but so what, all SR should be, offers nothing whatsoever in attack

Lockers-Solid SR at best, gives away at lot of pens.
Hock-Good 'go forward' to gives the ball away far too much to be anything superb. offloads at silly times and gives away pens.

For me it's not nobby, but the team.

Or you could say that some of the players haven't got the necessary skill sets, aptitude or general game play to execute those concepts. Maybe that's why we see the same basic errors repeated over and over again, week in week out?

I'm not excusing Noble of all blame here, it's just that IMO some of the players just aren't up to it in one respect or another, home grown or not.

I'm in general agreement - particularly about how good our back rowers are - but Nobby can't be totally blameless. There have been selection mistakes IMO to be laid at his feet, especially re the hooking position where Riddell - for whatever reason - is a clear third behind Tommy and McIllorum. My hope is that Nobby has given it 3 games, seen the situation and will make changes next week. If he doesn't make changes he might discover that IL will.

The shocking thing for me about riddell is his fitness. Yes he's a big bloke, this is not my concern, but seems to be really unfit and slow off the mark. He was the man to lead us around the park, but he doesn't have the fitness to move with any speed from dummy half.

I agree, he is 3rd behind Lulu and Macca. Which leaves an interesting point, is Riddell better off playing in the reserves till he gets up to speed and then can challenge for a 1st team spot?
I think that is what was happen to Macca if he looked unfit, so why not Riddell? we can't favour our big expensive aussie imports just cos of expectation.

This year we lost our only player with real creative and winning ability. Thats what's changed, not nobby.

True.

I was concerned about Piggy after reading reports on his weight issues when he was at St George and why he was released.

Wigan doesn't need the rep of being a club who is soft on different players for different reasons. We can't tolerate fitness and dieting issues with out players.

It's not just this season though is it?

And yes I know how close we got to the GF, but we won a few games last season that we didn't deserve to win, playing some of the most dire rugby I have ever seen us play.

This season so far, the rugby is the same (in most parts), and we are losing the matches we deserve to.

Nobby has not changed in the last 10 years and there is the problem. The player we lost in my opinion single handedly won Noble his contract extension for 09 for him.

No.

One is an out and out 7, the other is a 7/9.

Neither is a stand-off.

get the black pearl back at wigan,his overall persona will kick that lazy bunch of players into life

Wasn't Edwards once an out and out 6 who became a great 7? and a FB before that?
Hanley in the backs before becoming a great 13?
Gareth Ellis a centre before making a great SR?
Platt a great prop who started off in the second row?

Point is we never know till it's tried. Rushing partnerships etc will never work, everything takes time.

I want to see Tomkins as much as the next Wiganer.. but there's other things to consider.

murray did all the spade work at bradford,nobby got the glory years as a result