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Quote: Azul "This talk of a ‘relaunch’ makes me laugh.
What’s been relaunched? What’s been changed? The league structure? In that case we see a relaunch every 3 or 4 years.

In my case it’s the constant relaunches which has bored me to tears and one of the reasons I’ve gone from season tickets and 95% of away games until circa 2012, to a maximum 2 or 3 games a season last year.

Away from the league ‘issues’ and back to Wigan, as a general question related to all this, whatever happened to efforts like ‘The Big One’? Do the (much cut) marketing team come up with events like this now?'"


Serious question, this. Not an attempt to trap you or anything ... but why have changes in the basic structure of the game caused you to stop watching Wigan?

Why has tinkering with the format bored you so much that Wigan are now paying the price?

The Wigan experience hasn't changed a great deal. With the exception of the odd blip year like 2017, they've continued to compete at the highest level the UK game has and still don't charge extortionate prices. From a fans' perspective, there've been lots of trophies, the cherry and white legends rolls on etc.

Surely you can see that a key problem the club is facing at present is fans who find reasons not to attend?

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Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Why do Williams, Tommy and or Powell deserve to be dropped for Sammut? Look at their record in the last god knows how many matches?'"


Williams and Leuluai don’t deserve to be dropped at all. Powell is the weaker of the 3 players mentioned in my view although he works his socks off and in no way should he been seen as a scapegoat of any kind. However,

Leuluai is a better scrum half than Powell.
Leuluai is a better hooker than Powell.
Leuluai is a better hooker than he is a scrum half.
Williams is a better half back than both Powell and Leuluai

We have yet to see what Sammut can do but Lam brought him saying from day 1 that we need a half back.

I agree the run last year and winning the grand final was excellent for the club but it doesn’t mean we can’t improve on it. Sammut might not be your cup of tea but he must be Lam’s or he would never have brought him to the club. We need to see how we go with Sammut & Williams at 6 & 7 with Leuluai at 9 and Powell on the bench. If it doesn’t improve us, we can bring Powell back in and Sammut provides injury cover.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Bigredwarrior "Williams and Leuluai don’t deserve to be dropped at all. Powell is the weaker of the 3 players mentioned in my view although he works his socks off and in no way should he been seen as a scapegoat of any kind. However,

Leuluai is a better scrum half than Powell.
Leuluai is a better hooker than Powell.
Leuluai is a better hooker than he is a scrum half.
Williams is a better half back than both Powell and Leuluai

We have yet to see what Sammut can do but Lam brought him saying from day 1 that we need a half back.

I agree the run last year and winning the grand final was excellent for the club but it doesn’t mean we can’t improve on it. Sammut might not be your cup of tea but he must be Lam’s or he would never have brought him to the club. We need to see how we go with Sammut & Williams at 6 & 7 with Leuluai at 9 and Powell on the bench. If it doesn’t improve us, we can bring Powell back in and Sammut provides injury cover.'"


Tommy was blowing out his backside Friday - At his age understandable
Asking him to make 58 tackles like Powell does every game won't help us!
In the current climate having a 9 that can play 80 minutes and make 50+ tackles a game is invaluable - Especially as he's covering a lot of our front Row deficiencies in the tackling department.
I know people go on about him not scooting or being creative etc, but our Points for doesn't seem to suffer too much compared to other teams, the halves and 13 make a pretty good job of that.

I'm not against the Sammutt signing and agree that at some point he will have a big part to play in our season, but for now especially with his suspension he may just need to bide his time.
And I suspect when he does come in it will be for Tommy at first in games against a London type team for example - Just to keep Tommy fresh for what will surely be his last season?
Another reason to stick with Powell at 9 (Cue some experts saying that's not a reason to stick with Powell - Fair enough, go sign another 9 then, but until we do it's quite clear that the last 2 coaches have preferred Powell at 9 for now).

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Matt Parcell at Leeds is apparently surplus to requirements, might be worth a shot

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Quote: Jukesays "Tommy was blowing out his backside Friday - At his age understandable
Asking him to make 58 tackles like Powell does every game won't help us!
In the current climate having a 9 that can play 80 minutes and make 50+ tackles a game is invaluable - Especially as he's covering a lot of our front Row deficiencies in the tackling department.
I know people go on about him not scooting or being creative etc, but our Points for doesn't seem to suffer too much compared to other teams, the halves and 13 make a pretty good job of that.

I'm not against the Sammutt signing and agree that at some point he will have a big part to play in our season, but for now especially with his suspension he may just need to bide his time.
And I suspect when he does come in it will be for Tommy at first in games against a London type team for example - Just to keep Tommy fresh for what will surely be his last season?
Another reason to stick with Powell at 9 (Cue some experts saying that's not a reason to stick with Powell - Fair enough, go sign another 9 then, but until we do it's quite clear that the last 2 coaches have preferred Powell at 9 for now).'"


I’m not convinced the last 2 coaches preferred Powell at 9 though. I think they realised he was just not good enough at 7 and we got more out of him at 9 and had little option but to play him there to facilitate Tommy going to 7. I believe Tommy is a better hooker than Powell.

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Quote: Bigredwarrior "Williams and Leuluai don’t deserve to be dropped at all. Powell is the weaker of the 3 players mentioned in my view although he works his socks off and in no way should he been seen as a scapegoat of any kind. However,

Leuluai is a better scrum half than Powell.
Leuluai is a better hooker than Powell.
Leuluai is a better hooker than he is a scrum half.
Williams is a better half back than both Powell and Leuluai

We have yet to see what Sammut can do but Lam brought him saying from day 1 that we need a half back.

I agree the run last year and winning the grand final was excellent for the club but it doesn’t mean we can’t improve on it. Sammut might not be your cup of tea but he must be Lam’s or he would never have brought him to the club. We need to see how we go with Sammut & Williams at 6 & 7 with Leuluai at 9 and Powell on the bench. If it doesn’t improve us, we can bring Powell back in and Sammut provides injury cover.'"



None of the 3 deserve or should be dropped. Considering our winning record. It would be a disgrace for any of them to be dropped for Sammut. You keeping talking about approving, and I agree we can improve on the halves, but currently Sammut from his record and calibre in comparison to any of the 3 discussed does not deserve to leapfrog them in the pecking order. Not a chance. What a terrible message that would send to the rest of the squad.

And for Sammut as a signing? I question it, don't forget we know for a fact he was at LEAST 3rd choice, we know we chased Hastings then Lachlan Lam. I honestly think they offered Sammut a low contract, of which Sammut jumped at, as it's a golden opportunity to keep playing for a living, in this case with the champs.

Everything needs to be in context.

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Quote: Last Son of Wigan "None of the 3 deserve or should be dropped. Considering our winning record. It would be a disgrace for any of them to be dropped for Sammut. You keeping talking about approving, and I agree we can improve on the halves, but currently Sammut from his record and calibre in comparison to any of the 3 discussed does not deserve to leapfrog them in the pecking order. Not a chance. What a terrible message that would send to the rest of the squad.

And for Sammut as a signing? I question it, don't forget we know for a fact he was at LEAST 3rd choice, we know we chased Hastings then Lachlan Lam. I honestly think they offered Sammut a low contract, of which Sammut jumped at, as it's a golden opportunity to keep playing for a living, in this case with the champs.

Everything needs to be in context.'"


From what you’re saying no player should ever be dropped because it would “send a terrible message to the squad” what you’re forgetting however is last season Sam Tomkins took over game management and the kicking side of the game, 2 things which neither Tommy ot Powell are any good at, and from what I’ve seen Sammut looks like he can organise us round the park

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Quote: KingRoss11 "From what you’re saying no player should ever be dropped because it would “send a terrible message to the squad” what you’re forgetting however is last season Sam Tomkins took over game management and the kicking side of the game, 2 things which neither Tommy ot Powell are any good at, and from what I’ve seen Sammut looks like he can organise us round the park'"



No I'm not saying that at all. Please read my posts more carefully before wrongly putting words in my mouth.

You've misunderstood the point.

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Quote: Last Son of Wigan "None of the 3 deserve or should be dropped. Considering our winning record. It would be a disgrace for any of them to be dropped for Sammut. You keeping talking about approving, and I agree we can improve on the halves, but currently Sammut from his record and calibre in comparison to any of the 3 discussed does not deserve to leapfrog them in the pecking order. Not a chance. What a terrible message that would send to the rest of the squad.

And for Sammut as a signing? I question it, don't forget we know for a fact he was at LEAST 3rd choice, we know we chased Hastings then Lachlan Lam. I honestly think they offered Sammut a low contract, of which Sammut jumped at, as it's a golden opportunity to keep playing for a living, in this case with the champs.

Everything needs to be in context.'"


I also have reservations about Sammut. However, I’m prepared to give him a fair chance to prove himself.
We can’t say really compare him to players operating in SL as we haven’t seen him at that level in our squad yet. Look at Bullock. A player who we released and brought back from lower leagues and after 2 games is arguably one of our best forwards.

My point is purely that at the end of last season, the vast majority of us wanted us to bring in a scrum half. We have done so and he deserves a chance to succeed or to fall flat on his face. We don’t know what Lam sees in him, or how he is in training. If Lam thinks he deserves a go, I’ll back his judgment. That said, I think it’ll be the same 17 on Sunday.

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Quote: Bigredwarrior "I also have reservations about Sammut. However, I’m prepared to give him a fair chance to prove himself.
We can’t say really compare him to players operating in SL as we haven’t seen him at that level in our squad yet. Look at Bullock. A player who we released and brought back from lower leagues and after 2 games is arguably one of our best forwards.

My point is purely that at the end of last season, the vast majority of us wanted us to bring in a scrum half. We have done so and he deserves a chance to succeed or to fall flat on his face. We don’t know what Lam sees in him, or how he is in training. If Lam thinks he deserves a go, I’ll back his judgment. That said, I think it’ll be the same 17 on Sunday.'"



I do see your point. I just think there's a bigger picture. Sammut should earn his place in the team, there's no justification to have him leapfrog the others who are part of a winning team. The 3 in discussion don't deserve to be dropped.

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Quote: Last Son of Wigan "I do see your point. I just think there's a bigger picture. Sammut should earn his place in the team, there's no justification to have him leapfrog the others who are part of a winning team. The 3 in discussion don't deserve to be dropped.'"


How can he earn his place if he isn’t given a chance to play? We shouldn’t wait until there is a serous injury to a player before giving him a shot.
I’d also argue that there is no need for anybody to be dropped from the 17. I’d give Powell a bench spot.

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Quote: Bigredwarrior "How can he earn his place if he isn’t given a chance to play? We shouldn’t wait until there is a serous injury to a player before giving him a shot.
I’d also argue that there is no need for anybody to be dropped from the 17. I’d give Powell a bench spot.'"


Like everyone else. Like TT or any of the younger lads coming through.
You pick your best team, if people are performing you can't just drop them, if the team is winning, especially to make way for someone who has no right to leapfrog the others.

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Quote: Bigredwarrior "How can he earn his place if he isn’t given a chance to play? We shouldn’t wait until there is a serous injury to a player before giving him a shot.
I’d also argue that there is no need for anybody to be dropped from the 17. I’d give Powell a bench spot.'"

I think that Powell will start from the bench together with 3 props and Sammut will start in the halves when available. I don't think that it is matter of "dropping a player but Sammut will probably give us more balance and hopefully add to our pretty poor kicking game. The downside to this is that it will impact on defence and the first 2 games we seem to have much less intensity than last season so this may well compound this issue.
We have lost our only game player in ST and Sammut I can only assume was signed to cover part of ST's old role.

The problem for me is Escare. Yes he's exciting and can bring a bit of flair but I haven't got a clue what his position is as I don't think he can play in the halves and for a FB is defence isn't the best. Ideally we could have traded Escare and got a better player than Sammut but we are where we are so although I am not overly enamoured with Sammut he is a Wigan player so personally I will give him my support.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Bigredwarrior "I’m not convinced the last 2 coaches preferred Powell at 9 though. I think they realised he was just not good enough at 7 and we got more out of him at 9 and had little option but to play him there to facilitate Tommy going to 7. I believe Tommy is a better hooker than Powell.'"


I would hazard a guess that the previous coaches worked out that at that current time Tommy at 7 and Powell at 9 worked "Better for the Team"and I would argue results backed that up.
Now the new coach has gone with the same I can only assume he believes that also however as Sammutt got himself banned in a pre-season friendly the option has so far been taken off him.
As I say with Powell racking up 50+ tackles & 80 minutes every week I can't see him changing it, certainly this week.
Moving forward if Sammutt proves himself in training and or when an opportunity arises I can see him playing 7 - But Tommy will deffo not be playing 9 each week for 80minutes for the next 30 games.
He may go with Tommy off the bench and/or alternate them both but that will affect how we use our substitutes if we go with a 9 off the bench.

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Quote: Itchy Arsenal "I think that Powell will start from the bench together with 3 props and Sammut will start in the halves when available. I don't think that it is matter of "dropping a player but Sammut will probably give us more balance and hopefully add to our pretty poor kicking game. The downside to this is that it will impact on defence and the first 2 games we seem to have much less intensity than last season so this may well compound this issue.
We have lost our only game player in ST and Sammut I can only assume was signed to cover part of ST's old role.

The problem for me is Escare. Yes he's exciting and can bring a bit of flair but I haven't got a clue what his position is as I don't think he can play in the halves and for a FB is defence isn't the best. Ideally we could have traded Escare and got a better player than Sammut but we are where we are so although I am not overly enamoured with Sammut he is a Wigan player so personally I will give him my support.'"


Dropping Powell. I guess his high tackle count, 80 minute efforts and overall contribution warrants dropping to the bench for a player who's never really made it at SL level.

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Huddersfield-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
Sat 10th Aug
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wigan
Sun 11th Aug
SL
15:00
Leigh-Hull FC
SL
15:00
LondonB-Warrington
Sat 17th Aug
SL
19:30
Warrington-Leeds
SL
17:00
Wigan-St.Helens
SL
14:30
Hull FC-LondonB
Sun 18th Aug
SL
13:30
Leigh-Salford
SL
15:00
Catalans-Hull KR
SL
18:30
Huddersfield-Castleford
Fri 23rd Aug
SL
20:00
Castleford-Warrington
SL
20:00
Leeds-Catalans
Sat 24th Aug
SL
15:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
SL
14:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Thu 1st Aug
SL 20 Castleford10-20Leigh
SL 20 Wigan26-14Huddersfield
NRL 22 Wests30-48NQL Cowboys
Sun 28th Jul
NRL 21 St.George10-46Penrith
NRL 21 Dolphins14-21Gold Coast
NRL 21 Canberra32-12Souths
CH 19 Batley16-22Halifax
CH 19 Doncaster37-30Barrow
CH 19 Sheffield78-24Whitehaven
CH 19 Wakefield46-18Featherstone
CH 19 Widnes25-6Bradford
CH 19 York34-4Swinton
L1 17 Newcastle34-44Cornwall
L1 17 Hunslet24-32Workington
L1 17 Keighley36-12Midlands
L1 17 Rochdale10-14Oldham
Sat 27th Jul
SL 19 Salford30-22Castleford
SL 19 Catalans24-16Hull FC
NRL 21 Brisbane16-41Canterbury
NRL 21 NQL Cowboys30-22Cronulla
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 19 495 258 237 30
Warrington 19 498 245 253 28
Hull KR 19 481 255 226 28
Catalans 19 366 274 92 24
Salford 19 355 366 -11 24
St.Helens 19 455 256 199 22
 
Leeds 19 355 342 13 20
Leigh 19 392 286 106 19
Huddersfield 20 350 453 -103 14
Castleford 20 336 523 -187 13
Hull FC 19 268 566 -298 6
LondonB 19 198 725 -527 2
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 17 584 206 378 32
Sheffield 17 488 283 205 24
Toulouse 16 468 220 248 23
Widnes 17 410 307 103 21
Bradford 17 397 297 100 21
Doncaster 17 318 410 -92 17
 
York 18 428 345 83 16
Featherstone 17 440 359 81 16
Batley 17 284 366 -82 16
Swinton 17 342 422 -80 12
Halifax 17 318 459 -141 12
Barrow 16 255 458 -203 12
Whitehaven 17 336 556 -220 12
Dewsbury 18 224 560 -336 2
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