So are most of the teams who have beaten us yet they play better RL than we do. The question most Wigan fans want answering is why the likes of Cas and Wakey play better more attractive RL than we do when on paper we arguably have better players in most positions.

The answer to this question many fans have come up with is that those sides are better coached than we are.

No one is under any illusion we are full of class player though we do have several current internationals in the side. The problem many fans see is Noble isn't even getting the best out of what we have.



Well the simple answer is for Noble not to play Smith and put McIllorum on the bench instead, yet each week the fans ponder what permutation Noble will come up with in the 17 (or 19) as he seemingly tries to force square pegs into round holes (like picking too many back rowers and Smith instead of McIllorum).

Dave

It was brought forward a year simply because he came available a year earlier than expected.

Whether it was a good idea to sign him a year early I have my doubts as I think other areas of the team needed addressing first. If by not signing him a year early Roberts signed for someone else and thus we would not have got him in 2010, so what?

We can only speculate that IL wanted his flying winger he was going on about and so when he was available sooner he signed him or if he was just being too nice and did Roberts a favour! I can't think of any other reasons.

Either way his signing a year early was clearly driven by events and that doesn't look good from a long term planning point of view to me.

Dave

The reason other average teams are better than us is they better halfbacks than us. We simply do not have a decent organiser/halfback in the whole team. Tommy has been proven to be a better 9 than 7,Tim Smith is not up to the job of organising and far too hot and cold and Tomkins is too young to be expected to lead us around the park and organise. There is just no organiser in the whole squad and add to that none of them can kick a long ball if their life depended on it.

What we need to do is decide is Tomkins a long term 6 or 7 and sign a world class organising halfback to partner him. somebody who can direct the play around the field every week and can put a long kick in.

I can't understand the 4 year contract. 2 years is long enough (or maybe one) for anyone who hasn't proved himself. If he has a great 2 years both parties would want to extend the contact.
If he is substandard we can let him go.

But why was the money available to sign a player a year early? Why was we not using that money to bring in a player to strengthen the team where it needs it -prop/centre/halfback ?

Those are my concerns about signing him a year early. He has taken up salary cap space and a quota slot neither of which were expected to be used on him.

Then when Bird comes available we have no slots left on the overseas quota never mind money to pay him.

Dave

True about Bird. I know we couldnt of signed him anyway but that is not the point. Didnt we go for Tod Carney as well but IL wouldnt match his wages or something? Irrelevant in the long run as both players where refused visa's but it just shows that IL and BN both knew we needed a replacement for Barrett and did not have faith in a Tommy and Timmy pairing this year. As for Roberts well IMO he was signed early just to satisfy the fans as we would of only had Riddell to show for Trent Barrett,Mark Calderwood and Micky Higham.

I think pinning it all on the half backs lack of ability and nothing else is a bit simplistic. It has got to be a combination of factors but even if you are right and it's all down to the half backs Noble compounds the problem by his selections and tactics.

Lockers can kick a long ball but rarely does. Why is this? Because that is not part of the game plan or what?



That would just take us back to where we were under Barrett. When he was here he dragged the team up a level but IMO all this did was paper over the cracks. I reckon Noble would be gone already if it were not for Barrett in 2007 and 2008 so while we may need a new half back other things need to change including the tactics.

I think this current team under achieves but then so did the 2007 and 2008 teams even with Barrett in them. I think most people share this view we have an under achieving side and when you have such a side the finger gets pointed at the coach.

Dave

I am sure the club expressed interest in Carney as well as Bird and the I am sure the reasoning given behind it when supposedly we already had our half backs sorted was Wigan are always interested in signing top quality players.

It's a pretty bullet proof statement you can't argue with! The trouble is we were in no position to even consider Bird with both Roberts and Phelps signed up taking quota slots. So the club left itself no room to manoeuvre as it had filled the quota with these two.

Dave

Personally Dave i dont think the team underachieves at all. I think far too many of our players are over-rated by our own fans.

I thought organising and kicking were 2 of Riddell's strong suits?

You may have a point re the quality of the halves, but lots of other teams have better hookers too. I was delighted when he had his 1 storming game and expected him to kick on. Sadly, if anything he's regressed.

It's so depressing! Emergency centres, right wing conundrum, gruntless props and mis firing Aussies. It can hardly get any worse IMO.

I dont believe that for one minute Dave. If you have faith in your halfback pairing you dont go signing another halfback just for the sake of it because he is a good player. What that shows to me is they had major doubts about Tommy and Timmy. If there was no salary cap i could understand their statement but under the salary cap you cannot afford to just sign a players who you do not really need especially not when there are other positions in the squad in desperate need of strengthening.

I agree with the salary cap you have to plan your squad recruitment carefully not react to events which is what the club seemingly did with Roberts and then Bird when he suddenly became available.

I said signing Roberts was event driven and not planned at the time we were rumoured to be getting him early but IL was still flavour of the month so I am not sure my view was very popular.

I had thought there was some planning going on for example the length of Phelps contract coincides (when it expires) with a further reduction in the quota. He wanted a longer deal and Wigan didn't give him one as it would have meant a precious quota spot going on him that year (whether he should have been signed at all is another matter). But then when the club signed Roberts early that didn't look like planning to me.

As to the half backs I had hoped Smith and S Tomkins could pair up and form a new partnership but this is/was too radical for Noble. Smith is a 7 and S Tomkins a better stand off than either Smith or TL. I doubt Noble will try it given Smith's defence but I don't reckon he has worked out half the positions in the side in terms of his best combination including half back. Noble's solution was to go for Bird and when that could not come off he has been left with what he has got but has not made the best of it IMO.

Dave

Dave Whelan bought that. Wigan had it before IL arrived. He bought it along with the club.

Dave

If Noble is going to be sacked it will be at the end of the season.

Untill he is sacked I am right behind him and the team.