The fact you have to go back to a year when we nearly got relegated says it all. Our forwards should be ashamed the way they surrendered, i was actually embarrassed for them. The Saints fans were actually making fun with each carry they made at one point. You trying to make excuses for them wont help either. They need to know how bad they were not given a pat on the back and told 'dont worry, in 2006 we had worse performances'. They need a rocket up their s!

Clubb no case to answer on the disciplinary front, not carting the ball, up guilty as charged.

Well, there's many a good tune played on an old fiddle, my boy!

absolutely fabulous. And you could strad her various

A clever quote of mine you put up there. You’ll be aware I said they were blowing out their s and that they looked done in. In essence, I was agreeing, in part, with your original post. But, in the context of the game as a whole, it was unfair to just single out Clubb and Flower because not one player came out of the game with any credit. There was no ruffling an opponent’s hair from Partington, no laughing or jeering at Saints players by any of ours. Why? Because we were on the back foot from the off and we’re given an absolute lesson in how to play RL.

Regarding Burgess, I still think he’s an upgrade on what we’ve got and the potential is there with him and Bullock to form a formidable front row. With the young lads like Partington and Byrne now bedding in, the pack will be significantly better than it’s been for some time.

You really are a ‘glass half empty’ guy, pal. I suggest you get down to Robin Park and have a word with AL re Burgess and tell him he’s made a monumental cock up. I’m sure that after listening to you, he’ll pull the plug on the deal.

I didnt say they had made a cock up signing Burgess. I said that he isnt going to fix our problems. Everything i spoke about him was spot on, HE IS a shadow of the player he once was and thats why we were able to bring him back from Aus. Hes never going to rediscover close to that form he showed years ago. Of course hes an upgrade on what we have but he alone is not enough. Why on Earth we re-signed Clubb and then signed Clark ive no idea. That money would of been better going towards another half decent ready made prop even if we had to hold back until next season when somebody becomes available.

Some people on this forum seem to have a distinct knack of reading my posts and coming up with a faulty conclusion and making out that ive said something i haven't. Its like having a bunch of attack dogs after me every time i post.

What you’re failing to realise is that Lam, Rads and Lenagan between them have probably 70 years experience in professional Rugby League. And you’re just a bloke on a forum. Forgive me if I trust their judgement over yours.

I’m not one of them. I read your post and generally speaking, agree with virtually everything you said. Whilst I don’t think we can single out Clubb and Flower, for reasons already made clear, I think they’re now past it and if we aspire to get one ahead of Saints, we have to replace them with better players. Of course, we’re still landed with Clubb because of the deal we’ve offered him. He’ll still be a useful squad player though, as will Flower for that matter.

See, up to yet, I’ve agreed with everything you said in your original post. I just don’t agree with singling out Clubb and Flower.

Regarding Burgess, if he isn’t going to fix our problems, there’s no point signing him. I think he’ll be a great addition to our pack and on that we’ll just have to differ.

There’s no ‘attack dog’ mentality with me pal, I’m just not like that.

I don’t know how Clubb will be a good squad player? Considering he was once a centre he’s sure let his fitness go. We can’t carry him, other than putting pressure on the opposition kicker I don’t know what he adds. He does nothing going forwards and defensively he flies out of the line and misses most of the time.

We would have been better him leaving and signing a steady eddy like Chris Green.

You implied that i was saying that signing Burgess was a cock up, i wasnt saying that at all, i was just trying to point out that he isnt going to be the wrecking ball that he was years ago and he alone isnt going to fix our problems. Clubb will still be Clubb and Flower will still be Flower and they will be a year older than they are now.

Bullock has potential but he is another that is panting after 5 minutes and theres a noticeable drop off in the intensity of his drives. We're also losing Sarginson and nobody can deny the amount of work he does to help the forwards, they should give him half of their wages. I would rather of kept Sarge and lost Clubb to be honest. I could accept Flower as he was putting in some satisfactory performances up until he got injured.

God only knows what Clark brings? We seem to of gone crazy to get his signature but nobody i speak to sees anything in him other than another project to add to Bullock, Partington and Byrne.

I wouldnt say im a glass half empty guy, i just prefer to keep expectations low, i find you dont end up as disappointed that way.

Its a discussion board. I thought we are all here to give opinions and debate not worship Lam, Rads and Lenagan as some grand wise old trio that cant be questioned.

We’re so reactionary as fans to a defeat (me included as I’ve proposed all sorts of change for Friday) Saying guys like Clubb and Flower are finished just feels like that to me. It was only a couple of months ago that Clubb was carrying the front row but he needs to learn he can put a shift in even when we’ve got experienced heads back in the team. As for Flower he started this season really well then he had a bad back injury, followed by a knee problem and now he’s lacking match sharpness. It’s a shame that the timing is poor but that’s the way it is and hopefully he’ll be better this Friday for the run out last Friday.

Clubb needs a rocket up his backside in ore season and hopefully increased competition will provide that but I’m pretty happy to have him and Flower in a group of props alongside George Burgess, Clark, Bullock, Partington, Byrne and Havard and believe that’s a good set of props to go forward with. It has a nice mixture of youth and experience.