FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "The styles of the two sides currently makes for an intriguing match up. Saints will always dominate territory IMO because of how they play in getting off the line and trying to pin you down at your end. There aren’t many team that can try and play to a plan that we can and that’s to not panic, try to soak it up and be confident that at some point we can trouble them with our pace, as the intensity drops a touch. The issue we face with Saints though is that intensity never drops significantly and they seem to lift it and have a 2nd/3rd wind as the game goes on. Where we’ve hurt ourselves badly in games against them is adding to that pressure they apply by keep making basic errors, down at our end of the field. Clean those up and we’ll be a far better chance in future games against them.
Ultimately they’re still favourites at the moment because like it or not, they’re the better side. It’s not tough or embarrassing to admit that, I just think it’s a fact. We’re getting there but there is still work to do yet. I’m chuffed we’ve closed the gap as much as we have because we’re probably a year in front of where I thought/hoped we’d be. To think back to last season, I wouldn’t have believed you had you said we’d have a cup win in the bag, beating Saints in the process and would be sat 2nd in the table (even after basically giving up a couple of losses for the Cup win).'"
Agree 100%.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "Because he agrees with you? Have a word Stu...'"
No. See the subsequent reply from Egg Chasing. Maybe he/she needs to have a word too.
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| Quote: Trainman "
We should all agree that we are both very good sides playing completely contrasting styles. History does tend to favour the St Helens way of playing when it comes to October though.'"
Very good point and is one of the main reasons why Leeds beat us 4 times in 07,08, 09 and 11. Invariably wet conditions and Sinfield kicking us to death, them completing their sets and piling pressure on us to come out of our own 20.
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| Quote: Stu M "How is admitting you are closing the gap, the coach doing a great job and you being able to score from anywhere belittling??
Because "closing the gap" implies there is a gap to be closed and that remains to be proven. As it stands, we are the ones with the trophy in the cabinet so, if any gap needs to be closed, it's you winning something to close the gap on us. Until then, any comments about "closing the gap" are condescending.
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| Quote: Stu M "No. See the subsequent reply from Egg Chasing. Maybe he/she needs to have a word too.'"
No, it's his opinion and he's entitled to it. You grading posters on whether they agree with you or not is what needs a word! Utterly condescending.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "No, it's his opinion and he's entitled to it. You grading posters on whether they agree with you or not is what needs a word! Utterly condescending.'"
Thats not what I am doing. He's just not being swept away by cherry and white tinted glasses. There is still a gap to be closed. We've beaten you 2 out of 3 and are 4 points clear of you ergo we have won more games over the season. So does the fact that you won one particular game now mean that you are a better team?
So any team that knocks out City or Liverpool in a Cup competition are a better team? Ok.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "Because "closing the gap" implies there is a gap to be closed and that remains to be proven. As it stands, we are the ones with the trophy in the cabinet so, if any gap needs to be closed, it's you winning something to close the gap on us. Until then, any comments about "closing the gap" are condescending.'"
Your own coach says there is and we are still the benchmark! Its absolutely laughable that you now don't think there is.
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| Quote: Stu M "I'll tell you one thing. There is no way in the world that Wigan nil Hudds going down to 12 men after 16 mins, 11 for the last 8 mins and losing a FB after 3 mins. Absolutely no chance. However because its us, its simply because "Huddersfield were toothless". No other team in SL could've done that, not a chance.'"
I posted a while ago about the arrogance that comes from winning and this post (along with your others on here) pretty much highlights it.
Saints do something - Nobody else in the league could do it, not a chance
Saints lose - They weren't beaten by the better side, it was injuries, poor Saints play, bad decisions etc
You're a great side of course you are, but as I said before the Magic game...stop coming on here and expecting Wigan fans to celebrate you as the greatest side that ever lived. If you want to talk about how good you are and not have people challenge it then stick to RedVee.
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| I’m not agreeing with anybody, I’m just simply putting my opinion across of where this rivalry stands. I’ve bagged Saints enough on here and have been called out for it by Saints fans, not happy that I’ll criticise things like Woolf clearly putting blocks on players turning out for the All Stars or my opinion that Woolf has helped drive this culture the game now has, of players milking penalties (ironic that he’s now calling it out) or giving away tactical six agains. I don’t highlight them to drag those debates up again but just to show there us balance there. My eyes tell me week to week they’re still a better side than us and we still have work to do. I think Matt Peet knows this himself and he’ll be working his rocks off to close that gap that’s still there. It’s a smaller gap than it was even on Good Friday and it’s closed by a whopping amount from last year but we’re kidding ourselves if we don’t think there still is one IMO.
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| Quote: Egg Chasing "I posted a while ago about the arrogance that comes from winning and this post (along with your others on here) pretty much highlights it.
Saints do something - Nobody else in the league could do it, not a chance
Saints lose - They weren't beaten by the better side, it was injuries, poor Saints play, bad decisions etc
You're a great side of course you are, but as I said before the Magic game...stop coming on here and expecting Wigan fans to celebrate you as the greatest side that ever lived. If you want to talk about how good you are and not have people challenge it then stick to RedVee.'"
I don't expect that. What I expected was some respect for the Hudds game in particular rather than Hudds inablility to score. Thats what has got my back up and if you don't agree then fine. Its expected that fans or rival teams will argue, thats the point of the forum isn't it?
I've not stopped posting because people don't agree with me. I love a debate.
I could second your arrogance comment by the fact that all of a sudden (in some Wigan fans eyes) we need to close the gap on them and they are the better team because they won the CC.
If you do win the Grand Final I'll righly laud it.
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| Quote: Stu M "Your own coach says there is and we are still the benchmark! Its absolutely laughable that you now don't think there is.'"
And you don't think you're condescending? I thought you were better than this.
As for what Peet says, you've already addressed this yourself. It's his job to keep a list on things, just as any coach would. Do you expect him to come out and say "we're the best team in the league and have now surpassed Saints"? I'm using this phrase a lot with you recently Stu, but have a word...
Still awaiting your definition of toothless if it's not an inability to score points Stu.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "And you don't think you're condescending? I thought you were better than this.
As for what Peet says, you've already addressed this yourself. It's his job to keep a list on things, just as any coach would. Do you expect him to come out and say "we're the best team in the league and have now surpassed Saints"? I'm using this phrase a lot with you recently Stu, but have a word...
Still awaiting your definition of toothless if it's not an inability to score points Stu.'"
Despite the fact that some of your fans also feel there is a gap?
Yes toothless in rugby terms is an inability to score points. Thats not been in question.
Is an inability to score points also not reflective of the oppositions defence? Still waiting for your answer on this one.
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| Quote: Stu M "I don't expect that. What I expected was some respect for the Hudds game in particular rather than Hudds inablility to score. Thats what has got my back up and if you don't agree then fine. Its expected that fans or rival teams will argue, thats the point of the forum isn't it?
I've not stopped posting because people don't agree with me. I love a debate.
I could second your arrogance comment by the fact that all of a sudden (in some Wigan fans eyes) we need to close the gap on them and they are the better team because they won the CC.
If you do win the Grand Final I'll righly laud it.'"
Are you talking about the Wigan fans respecting it or across the game? If it’s the latter, I’ve seen so much praise for Saints post last Friday. Some of the media guys like Matt Shaw and Aaron Bower we’re lauding it and saying it confirmed Saints place as the best of all time. I thought that was OTT but that would go back to the general quality across the sport at the minute in comparison to a decade ago.
If it’s regards to us praising it, I can’t give it loads because I didn’t see it as I was at the Wigan game. Maybe it’s my biased eyes but there seems to have been very little fuss made this week of a guy who broke a 20 year old try scoring record. The game needs to be better at that IMO.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "I’m not agreeing with anybody, I’m just simply putting my opinion across of where this rivalry stands. I’ve bagged Saints enough on here and have been called out for it by Saints fans, not happy that I’ll criticise things like Woolf clearly putting blocks on players turning out for the All Stars or my opinion that Woolf has helped drive this culture the game now has, of players milking penalties (ironic that he’s now calling it out) or giving away tactical six agains. I don’t highlight them to drag those debates up again but just to show there us balance there. My eyes tell me week to week they’re still a better side than us and we still have work to do. I think Matt Peet knows this himself and he’ll be working his rocks off to close that gap that’s still there. It’s a smaller gap than it was even on Good Friday and it’s closed by a whopping amount from last year but we’re kidding ourselves if we don’t think there still is one IMO.'"
Not criticising your opinion NK. You're entitled to it as Egg is. However it's just an opinion. My opinion is that nothing has been sorted one way or the other and we're the ones with the trophy in the cabinet beating them on the way to winning it, so the only gap to be closed this season so far is them needing to win something. Everything else is just opinion and hot air.
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| Quote: Stu M "Despite the fact that some of your fans also feel there is a gap?
Yes toothless in rugby terms is an inability to score points. Thats not been in question.
Is an inability to score points also not reflective of the oppositions defence? Still waiting for your answer on this one.'"
I gave it to you when I said your Huddersfield performance was outstanding. What exactly are you waiting for?
If our definitions of toothless are the same, why do you object to me using the term in a situation that fits both our definitions?
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