Doesn't hold much hope for the game of RL if a team of unorganized, badly coached want-a-way players can sit 2nd in the league looking good for a semi-final spot.

The club isn't run as badly as some people would perceive, the set-up from junior level to the first team is excellent. I fully agree that our recruitment over the last few years may be deemed a little poor, and the "old-boys" club is deemed (by IL & KR) as a failure. However, that problem can already been seen to be improving, I think recruitment this year and for next year is already looking a lot more positive. I understand most perceive Zak as a gamble but Hamlin & Sarge*, Joe G & Hank for arrivals are good starts. The departures are strategic and none of them have happened against the clubs wishes. I would imagine a few more before the end of the year.

I have no idea how to search my previous posts but I am sure someone does, I said back in January that SW and the club had agreed to another year with a view to changing the style of play and pushing for honours, a repeat of last year (in both style of play and results) was unacceptable, I also said that if things didn't change IL was not afraid to make changes. SW stepped down under his terms with the full support of IL, there was zero effort to retain him. The perceptions of both performances and targets met at the highest level of management within the club were not satisfactory, even given our better form prior to SW announcing he would step down, this is the main reason for SW leaving, he felt the club needed more investment to reach the levels the club wanted, the club clearly disagreed and insisted SW owned responsibility for recruitment in his interviews, which he did.

So whatever direction we take, be it Lammy, Shaun Edwards or Adam O'Brien or another you can be damn sure they are appointed under a huge weight of expectation. IL is not tight, far from, the money is there for the very best level of recruitment.

* Sarge - my view, a brilliant cover option for the backs. Not on the massive wage all assume and is genuinely happy to be at the club after a rough few months. Good value for money and under a new management we will likely see an improvement.

Everything I've heard from my source at the club says this is rubbish. Wane is a very technical coach, far away from the way he is perceived as an Ape in the media. It's a fake comment, made to fit someone's argument.

Don't believe you, Who is your source, Is he/she a part of the Wane lovers club?

I wish people in here would have more bottle. If you're gonna post a comment; post who it's from. After all, it's all usernames anyway.

Where are the insults? If you are referring to me pointing to your smugness that isn't an insult, merely a reasonable description of someone who posts "happy to help" (sic) on a post that is demonstrably wrong. As for the "your foaming at the mouth amuses me" comment; well if that isn't the best example of a smug comment I'd like to see a better one!

The problem with posters like you is that you're unable to enter reasonable debate because you find it impossible to accept being proven wrong and actually think that making some fatuous comment is an adequate substitute. Ta-ta love? How old are you again?

Anyhow, given you've been unable to offer actual answers to any of the points I've raised we'll take it that you've realised that you're wrong but are too childish to actually admit it. No problem. I'm sure the adults won't miss your insightful comments.

Ta-ta love!

Yes, that's what I was alluding to, I personally think if your spending more than anyone else over a few years you should see the results of that, we haven't.

Especially with the academy we have.

I’d like to see some figures but I’d guess it’s not a great deal more then the other big teams. I get where you’re coming from to an extent and we certainly should’ve won more then we have but some would argue that we have seen the results of that outlay and the academy via a challenge cup win, two grand final wins and a World Club Challenge in addition to other final appearances. In Wanes six and a half years our record must be better then everyone bar Leeds so we’ve out performed what I’d guess is about 14 or 15 clubs who’ve been in superleague in that time.

One thing I think most people agree on is that the time feels right for a change. We seemed to be heading in a pretty good direction up until the announcement of Wanes departure but even then there was an element of support who weren’t happy. I just hope we make an appointment that will unite everyone and get people right behind the club. It may only last until the first defeat but the constant Wane backers vs Wane doubters debates have now been done to death.

I agree but would also like to add, that Maguire left Wane a team that could have dominated the comp due to the end of an era for Saints and Leeds.

I remeber a lot of people posting back at the end of 2011 and in 2012 that we could enter a period dominance like Leeds and Saints enjoyed due to our failure under the Whelan Lindsay years.

Yes the change is happening at last, and the Wane v Wane has got boring but it is still going on as he is still the head coach, so it's still relevant.

One thing for sure is that I will be 110% behind the new coach like i was for years with Wane because I trust Lenners 110% to get the right man.

Quote: Ziggy Stardust "I agree but would also like to add, that Maguire left Wane a team that could have dominated the comp due to the end of an era for Saints and Leeds. I remeber a lot of people posting back at the end of 2011 and in 2012 that we could enter a period dominance like Leeds and Saints enjoyed due to our failure under the Whelan Lindsay years. Yes the change is happening at last, and the Wane v Wane has got boring but it is still going on as he is still the head coach, so it's still relevant. One thing for sure is that I will be 110% behind the new coach like i was for years with Wane because I trust Lenners 110% to get the right man.'" Sorry mate but, at the risk of starting up another conversation, you're wrong again. Here is the last Maguire team: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wi ... ors_season How many of those were there for the long haul. We had absolutely zero chance of keeping that team together. The Melbourne players were kicking their heels until they could get back to the NRL, several were on the cusp of retirement and some simply weren't good enough to dominate a competition anyway! This squad was the antithesis of the Leeds 'Golden Generation'. Let's be honest here; this 'team that could have dominated the competition' didn't even make the Grand Final... and that, under a superior coach according to you! I'm no Wane die hard but, come on, let's not rewrite history! As for the point about spending more due to having 2 marquee players; how is this a reason why we should have achieved more as you claim? The 2 marquee rule was only came into effect this season (voted through April 2017 to come into effect the following season). How is this even relevant to your argument?

Quote: Ziggy Stardust "I agree but would also like to add, that Maguire left Wane a team that could have dominated the comp due to the end of an era for Saints and Leeds. I remeber a lot of people posting back at the end of 2011 and in 2012 that we could enter a period dominance like Leeds and Saints enjoyed due to our failure under the Whelan Lindsay years. Yes the change is happening at last, and the Wane v Wane has got boring but it is still going on as he is still the head coach, so it's still relevant. One thing for sure is that I will be 110% behind the new coach like i was for years with Wane because I trust Lenners 110% to get the right man.'" Sorry mate but, at the risk of starting up another conversation, you're wrong again. Here is the last Maguire team: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wi ... ors_season How many of those were there for the long haul. We had absolutely zero chance of keeping that team together. The Melbourne players were kicking their heels until they could get back to the NRL, several were on the cusp of retirement and some simply weren't good enough to dominate a competition anyway! This squad was the antithesis of the Leeds 'Golden Generation'. Let's be honest here; this 'team that could have dominated the competition' didn't even make the Grand Final... and that, under a superior coach according to you! I'm no Wane die hard but, come on, let's not rewrite history! As for the point about spending more due to having 2 marquee players; how is this a reason why we should have achieved more as you claim? The 2 marquee rule was only came into effect this season (voted through April 2017 to come into effect the following season). How is this even relevant to your argument?

The 2011 side got broke up a touch but the 2012 team should’ve cleaned up but blew it in both semi finals. We played some sensational rugby that year lead by Tomkins and Hock linking up to terrorise teams at points. We then won the double in 2013, had a player cost us a Grand Final win in 2014 and then cost ourselves a Grand Final win in 2015 by playing negative rugby and going for two points when we were 2 points in front and letting Leeds come down the other end and score a soft try. We then won the 2016 Grand Final out of nowhere really.

If we’d just got one of those two final defeats in the bag I think we could’ve called it a period of dominance but as it stands it probably goes down as a good period in the clubs history that actuallly could have been better.

I suspect it's difficult to view the Maguire/early Wane period as a period of dominance because we, more than anyone, know what a real period of dominance is like.

Until the memory of the best domestic RL team in British history finally fades, that spectre will linger on. Even now, I'm sure that's the reason why there is a section of the Wigan crowd who are barely ever satisfied with new signings, new coaching appointments, occasional trophy wins etc, because they always unconsciously compare it with that golden age.

Whatever happens in the remainder of 2018 - and I have to say, I'm not optimistic - I think it will only be fair if Shaun Wane is looked back on as one of our better coaches of recent times.

I know the last couple of years have been disappointing, which have suggested that his shelf-life is finally over. But I cannot agree with some of the scathing criticism that's being directed at him. Yes, he's had at least as much money to spend as anyone else. Yes, he's had state-of-the-art facilities to work in. But we can't assume that means he should win everything. Unlike the late 80s /
early 90s, there are several other very well run, very well financed clubs in this competition. It's just not possible to have things all our own way. Even Madge didn't, and many view him as the modern benchmark.

Hey Wigan, hope this post is relevant, after our shellacking at Wakey, we’ve had rumours of everything from “sources” an earlier poster nailed it, Show more courage and name the player, otherwise it’s just smoke and mirrors.

For what it’s worth, playing against Waneys side at Doncaster in a fantastic CCup semi, a GF semi at Wigan, and a touch and go CCup final last year, three fantastic games which will stick with me, and it may have changed now, all things do, but Waneys sides have been probably the most dogged and difficult side to beat, especially in the big ones, he’s been a great coach for you, and his teams never new when they were beat.
You will struggle to replace him, no offence intended.

Did he though? We kept Lima and Finch into 2012 but both were never going to stay and left at the end of 2012. Sam Tomkins also left from the 2011 squad, as did Fielden, Coley, Deacon, J Tomkins, and Carmont.

That's a lot of change to what Maguire left behind, losing 8 of the first 13 either through retirement or movements for more money. Not something any coach can control and there's no way we would see the likes of Finch, Lima and Hoffman roll into the club like they did with Maguire, he was very lucky with the problems at Melbourne which made this happen.