Disagree, It starts from 8 & 10-13 allowing 6,7 and 9 the time and space to get on the front foot and express their cleverness/craft.

I think the difference was out kicking game and PTB speed. The first part of the 2nd half we was looking good, untill the last 20 minute syndrome kicked in as per usual.

one thing that could be said of the utilisation of sam is that when the ball was sent back on the inside instead of out to sam, he would often act as a foil which the aussies followed, enabling the likes of wilkin and jjb, who would often receive the ball, to make a little more ground. intentional or not, now people are more and more aware of sams strike power maybe this is a tactic that needs to be adopted or at least something to be aware of.

No, 6, 7 and 9 (in particular) handle the ball more than the other players. If their passing is not crisp and accurate enough then those player you mention can't get the momentum.

Sadly in our game, they are at premium because we've become obsessed with quick play the balls and scoots from dummy half. The craft has been removed.

They all tried their best, they all gave their all. I wouldn't criticise any player, or the coaching staff or the RFL. The Aussies are just too good for us. Thaiday and Gallen were outstanding, Smith was superb and then as back up they had Thurston, Inglis, Lockyer etc. It was too much. If we played them every week for 6 months, I'd be surprised if we even won 5 games.

The plus points for me from the 4 nations is that we did install some sort of competition into the tournament and I for one thoroughly enjoyed it even though the result went against us.

+1. Class players who play at 6,7 and 9 every week at the highest level. Until we start producing quality players in these key positons we'll always be behind them.

One good thing from last night , parked right across from the ground car park B, didn't leave early ( no Wigan walk here ) Saints fans note! stroll back after final whistle, from getting in the car less than 5 mins and on the M621, well done Leeds police, they had blocked the road to allow traffic to leave, please note Wigan police !

And if the fullback can't catch, they don't even get the chance to handle the ball.

Sam Tomkins looked the same this year against the Aussies when under pressure as he did last year against the Aussies when under pressure. His abilities under the high ball are questionable when under pressure (which he will be at international level if the opposition is worth its salt) and his line defence is poor. While I accept that the fullback has become more of an attacking threat in the modern game, that doesn't mean that a fullback shouldn't still be at the very least a good defender. And he should definitely be able to cope with a high ball under pressure if he wants to play on the international stage. That's his job.

True to a degree, but Thurston in particular and Lockyer were afforded the space to express themselves. Sinfield and Chase weren't. This is in part due to the Aussies domination in the forwards (in defence as well as attack). The kicking game was poor, partly because of lack of field position and largely because of kick pressure.
Just as 6,7 and 9 need to lead the forwards around the park, so the forwards need to 'lay the platform' (not my term but one that is frequently used by top players and coaches alike)
I'm not arguing that our 6,7 and 9 are as good as the Aussies. That would be simply ludicrous, but the inability of the rest of the team to compete effectively did have some influence.

I think the reason your post bugged me is that earlier you blamed Sinfield, Chase and Roby for being average and Hall, Ellis, JJB , Graham and Carvell for their errors. Only Tomkins was excused for his mistakes on account of the pressure he was under.
Unless you recognise that the rest of the team, and particularly the playmakers were also under much more pressure than they are used to, your analysis will remain tainted by accusations of club bias.

Thanks for that I needed a laugh..you don't watch sam much do you. (who would you pick at FB?)

Oooo watch it! making a strong post with solid points could see this thread shut down.

Not at all, however, derailing it with childish comments like yours could see it shut down. If you have a problem with the way the site is run you know where you can go.

A bit of assistance from his teammates wouldnt have gone a miss. One of the few effective kicks we put up early on Reed was chasing and was edged out by Thurston so Boyd could catch the ball. The kicks Tomkins flapped at there were 3 or 4 aussies within a few feet of him with no England players anywhere near.

while i would like to say sam is solid under the high ball, i dont think i could and believe it myself. as you say, the key point is under pressure, which he does not seem to deal well with. in regards to his line defence however, i would ask why you think it is questionable