Yeah yeah, and if you win the GF and beat them it will be no achievement either I'm sure.

And yes, it is just like the Academy GF, good point.

By the same token Cleary could easily have just said "yeah we obviously wanted to win, hopefully we'll win it next time" He didn't need to give us the credit he did.

I presume it was nothing like the achievement of Wigan beating Brisbane in 94, no doubt that was held in much higher regard.

Why are you referring to the Academy Final again? We weren't the ones breaking any rules from memory? And if you genuinely think we were running scared of Wigan then you obviously have forgotten that we beat Wigan at Robin Park in April- by a much more convincing scoreline than Wigan's victory over us I may hasten to add.

I absolutely guarantee there'll be Saints fans belittling it should that happen mate. Wouldn't mean they're right though.

Personally, I'd say the two responses in almost quick succession from Stu and FTV kinda proves the point I'm making. It seems to be a sensitive subject for Saints fans that - anything that isn't fawning over them has to be shot down.

I certainly wasn't saying it's not an achievement. It's a very, very good one and one that's up there with the best any British RL club have ever achieved. It's just not this all conquering, best achievement in sport that some of them like to make out. Likewise with the academy GF - parading a trophy around when you didn't beat the team who should have been in the final taints the win. It's an achievement, just not as big of a one you like to make it out to be.

I'd liken the WCC to Buster Douglas beating Tyson. He ended up being the Heavyweight Champion of the World - a massive achievement on its own & one no one can take away from him. He, like this Saints side, will be rightly be remembered as a champion. He wasn't however better than Tyson and if they'd have fought 5 times, it's more than likely likely Tyson would have won 4/5.

Saints aren't the best side in the world. Penrith obviously are. I'm not sure why it bothers Saints fans so much when people say it. Btw if we did the same, I'd be saying the same.

Well I've seen some analogies in my time but thats the best of the lot. Comparing a team currently going for 5 in a row and arguably the greatest team of the SL era to a complete outsider and no hoper as Buster Douglas is incredible. Absolutely incredible.

FWIW I agree that if we played them 10 times, Penrith would win more than us. However given the intensity of their comp and salary cap you'd expect that. They'd also beat any other SL team more times than not.

I'd also argue that a lot of Saints comments on social media are tongue in cheek and aimed at winding opposition fans up.

On your second point and given you can't stop talking about the Academy GF...

Should we not have celebrated? "Sorry lads we can't lift the trophy because we didn't play Wigan, just get changed quickly and go home, see you next season" Thats absolutely laughable.

Again FWIW Wigan were lucky to beat Warrington in the first place and even then only won you could argue due to the extra subs. On a level playing field Warrington may well have won that game fair and square so your obsession in denying 18 year old lads an achievment because of Wigan breaking the rules is equally as incredible as your Buster Douglas analogy.

Your comments are even more remarkable given that you argue with other Wigan fans on here for not giving Saints credit in raising the standards, challenging the MRP, promoting young players etc.

That doesn't bother Saints fans - I agree with it. What bothers Saints fans is pretending they didn't take it seriously. Anyone with eyes could see that they were taking the game seriously, were elated when they tied level jand doing "ice in the veins" gestures, then devastated by the GP loss.

Saying Penrith are the best club side in the world isn't really a controversial take, but guess what - they sometimes lose games and lost one that day in what happened to be the WCC.

Part of being a champion side is preparing properly and if they didn't do that then more fool them.

I am talking about the props not the pack in general. Knowles and Matautia aren’t props. Passi, you have no idea how he will recover from his horrendous injury, Walmsley is starting to miss games through injury. Eseh is as raw as red meat and Stephens is nowhere near first team rugby. Wingfield, I understood was a loose forward/second row. Lees is fine. If you get one or two injuries to your main props then you could be in the doo dah.

People repeating the words "Knowles and Matautia aren't props" doesn't stop them playing prop and doing it very well.

If we still had LMS people would say he is another prop, ignoriing the fact he too started in the back row and is a worse prop than both Knowles and Sione.

I won’t be. I hope you wallop the smug ******

There's taking it serious and being gutted with the loss and then really taking it seriously. You're a fan of a top team, you know that. I'm sure Wigan took the game Vs Wakey (A) serious and didn't want to lose. Likewise your loss to Leigh will be the same. You obviously wanted to reach the CC final - who wouldn't have. Was either of those achievements by Leigh or Wakey, the be all and end all however?

We know that both teams had an off day and who the better team overall is/are. Why is it then, fans can't handle it when NRL fans, or those of other teams dare to suggest the same in relation to the WCC. It's a good performance in a one off game. Well done, take the W & the glory, but know where you stand in the grand scheme of things.

I am talking about the props not the pack in general. Knowles and Matautia aren’t props. Passi, you have no idea how he will recover from his horrendous injury, Walmsley is starting to miss games through injury. Eseh is as raw as red meat and Stephens is nowhere near first team rugby. Wingfield, I understood was a loose forward/second row. Lees is fine. If you get one or two injuries to your main props then you could be in the doo dah.

Not by your logic, by your logic because SL is more importnant to us we probably didn't take that game seriously.



I'm not sure what straw man you are running here, basically nobody (Saints fan or otherwise) would dispute that Penrith are the best team in the world. That's why going out there and beating them in a one off game was such a magnificent achievement.

The only person who wants to pretend people think that means Penrith are not the best RL team in the world appears to be you.

It doesn’t stop me playing prop either and playing very well, it still doesn’t make me a prop. I, like them, would be a temporary solution.

Was Jamie Peacock moving from SR to prop also a temporary solution?

13 and prop has been pretty interchangeable for a while. Why people can't see that Knowles and Sione are currently best suited to prop is beyond me but each to their own! Knowles has played prop for England. Sione is a bigger body than Luke Thompson.

Just lazily stating that they "aren't props" is missing the point. Worth watching the roles both play tonight in the middle of the park (albeit with Batchelor missing, and before signing Whitley, Sione is likely to return to the back row this week)

There's no straw man argument. The fact your lot keep recycling quotes about how much Penrith "wanted it" obviously means you guys think you beat them at their best. You didn't and you can't.

Good achievement and a hell of a lot of luck too. Congratulations.