People what do you want?

I dispare at some people especially Brettkenny etc who harp on about the 80's and early 90's when Wigan ruled the world.....yawn.

We also had an International team that was so close to challenging again and the bulk of the players in the top teams were British.

If you want to watch the best players in the world get Premier Sport. If you want to see the British game grow again embrace the fact we can no longer rely on foreign superstars in key positions.

In the 80's and Early 90's teams stuck to the quota no loop holes.

Enjoy the code enjoy the transition we are in and look forward to the future if a strong British game and team.

The game's history is based on top clubs signing some top class Union talent and topping it up with mostly local lads, with the odd signing from another club. The Union signings helped us compete with the Aussies. The Union signings dried up when they went pro and we papered over the cracks with imports, some of them top class, although our international performances suffered.

We have made some gains from league developed talent in previously untapped areas such London and Wales but as yet this is a trickle rather than a flood.

I for one am not looking forward to a future without either top class Union signings or top class imports.

Hang on Dave, let's not forget that when Pat was first unveiled there were lots of people who moaned that he wasn't good enough and within a few months they were praying for him to go home. Amazing though it may seem now, there were similar views aired when we signed George Carmont and even Tommy Leuluai.

Sometimes the difference between an 'average standard player' and a 'good player' is in the eye of the beholder. Wigan have long been famous for signing 'average standard players' who became excellent servants to the club - even going back to the likes of Terry O'Connor, Neil Cowie, Billy McGinty etc.

Let's not get too arrogant about this and assume that just because a guy hasn't played regularly for the Kangaroos or State of Origin he isn't worth a punt (I'm not saying you're doing this, but some definitely are). Blake Green has all the makings of a very useful stand-off for Wigan. You yourself said that it's too early to judge him.

I suggest you watch more junior rugby. Maybe then you will start to realise the talent pool we have in this country.

Maybe. But in view of Hampshire and Williams looking excellent prospects, maybe less so.

anyone got an idea on the fee?

Depends who you want to believe, but any scousers or y fans will tell you it's anywhere between £10,000 and £27,000,000.

There's always been talent in junior rugby, but I don't have the time or inclination to watch it other than the odd game at St Pats.

What I don't want is to be watching an inferior competition with little national recognition for the rest of my time, but that is what we look like getting.

No it doesn't, not at all, our chairman doesn't throw about 5 year deals anymore, he will have to earn a longer deal, if he didn't live up to expectation and was on a 5 year deal, people like you would be throwing your toys everywere telling us what a ridiculous idea it was to give him a 5 year deal. A 2 year deal gives him time to prove himself and earn a longer deal.

I wish people would stop moaning and give the bloke a chance, hes a good player, with a good kicking game, a good passing game and can take the line on. Mind you, we should all know by now, you simply cant please Wigan fans.

Don't worry. The scouts at Wigan RL have exactly the same attitude.

We did spend too large of a proportion on a relatively small amount of the Top players at the club.
Whether you want to believe that or not is up to you but the evidence and a lot of the information given by IL at the original Fans forum supported this theory.

We inheritted a situation due to the SL war in 95ish that meant we payed some really large salaries to key personnel i.e Connolly/Robinson/Farrell/Paul etc and it's no secret that we struggled to get under the original salary caps and had to negotiate with the RFL for dispensation (Something I agreed with).

However

When we then went out and spent large money on the Matty Johns and Renoufs of this world and then HAD TO stay within salary cap it was a time bomb waiting to go off.
For me what suffered at this point mid 2000's was the Off the field investments in youth and the ability to be patient and invest in youth due to being Top Heavy with salaries on the Top earners (We invested large amount of money in Vaeliki/Fletcher/Feka/Barrett/Fielden/Seu seu and I could go on).

I believe this was a result of the pressure building to actually win something short term and when the injuries and other situations kicked in the cards came tumbling down.

IL's idea was to remove the reliance on the top earners and filter a lot more of the money through the youth players and invest in them long term.
I argued with a Saints fan in Oz at the world cup in 2008 (It wasnt JLM23 who comes on here but he was stood with us and actually agreed) that in 2 years Wigan would be a better team/club than Saints.

It would just take a bit of patience and the chance for the youth to develop.

This has led to a better cycle of talent coming through the club and less reliance on siging Top talent from elsewhere that leads to Top money being shelled out.

Your spot on about Tomkins being a Big earner but we all know the negotiations and work Wigan had to put in to keep him and get the salary cap amended etc to keep him.

If we are going to pay Top money then I for one am glad it's on Juniors that have come through the ranks wherever possible and show more of a commitment to the club in general.
Tomkins is top drawer and as good as anything Ive seen at Wigan and I for one wouldn't like to think we ever lost someone like that in the future due to not being able to pay him what he's worth when he's in his teens as we try and chase short term success.