that was the last time wire finished as League Leaders and again ended up with nothing....

Imagine the shock the following year when it reverted back to being the league leaders crowned as champions,and the playoffs decided a secondary competition called the Club championship (effectively the premiership) which Wires won...!!! wouldnt that make you blow chunks.....

so I appreciate if you wigan fans would stop taking the mick we've had it tough with this league leaders/ champions thing..

-true ,but still, a very,very unfair way to decide who are champoins in my opinion,this format really does need to change but unfortunately money talks and sky are pulling the strings,its just makes a mockery of the whole game,lets just scrap the league and play 3 games in sept,simple! lol

double post

Regardless of how many teams sky wish to include in the gf, 1 should play 2 in the first week the winner going straight to the gf whilst the loser plays whoever comes out on top of the other teams. Much like the top 5 system.

I know I've cut a very long post into a small section but here goes!

The Grand Final doesn't take place in February, if it did it probalably wouldn't have been Harlequins & Hudds.
Main reason
The Grand Final is in October and them's the rules, if it was I'm sure Wigan/Wire/Saints/Leeds and all the other clubs would play the game to those rules!

Your scenario although fooling a few doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

"If" Harlequins & Hudds had made the GF this year in October they would have deserved it no matter how they did it because they would have playes the current rules and won the games that mattered, when it mattered and Won them!
Wheter there would have been 25k at Old Trafford or not is one of the most disrespectful commetns I've heard, "If" they had have been there next week they'd have deserved it just as Leeds & Saints do for next week.

Wigan made a target of the CC this year and maybe (Not saying it did) that had an effect on their end of season but you know what? Them's the rules!
If you want to throw all your eggs into the GF basket then Madge could have put the kids out for the Challenge cup and not bothered with it?
We didn't, we wnated to win it and I for one wouldn't swap that memory this year for anything!

We could start complaining aboput moving the CC to another time of the year etc etc but at the start of the year every club knew how the fixture list panned out and each club had their injury situations, form, squad and Goals/Focus for the year.

In terms of finishing the year as SL Champions, Leeds & Saints have got their shot at it because they deserved it and won the right games at the right times!

Your right in what you say, the grand final doesnt take place in february, but my point about huds and quins was a purposfully absurd one to show up the grand final series for what it is, which is essentially a form competition for 3-4 weeks, which in its current set up, demeans the league far too much IMO.

Your also right in that these are the rules and everyone knows and plays to them, and so fair play to saints and leeds for playing to these rules, and whoever wins next week will be champions. but it doesn't mean that we cant critisise the rules, due to the fact that you end up with absurdities such as next weekend's 'Grand' final, where due to the current emphasis placed on form, it is all too easy for average teams to get a shot at becoming the 'champions', which IMO is wrong!

Just because these are the rules doesn't mean the rules shouldnt be looked at, because in mine, and many other fans opinions, they do not adequately place credit on the teams performance for 6 months in the league, and make the last 6 months of little point.

What IF for example the RFL said that from next year we have a top 12 play off, with the top 4 from NL1, where there would be no seeding but just a straight draw like the challenge cup, to decide the champions at the end of the season. Daft but not beyond the realms of possibility with the prats we currently have running our game!!! You could then end up with Quins coming 12th, playing Leigh, Bradford & Featherstone to make the Grand Final, before beating Huddersfield in the Grand final to become champions. Would they have deserved it = Yes because they had played to the rules and won the required games - However, would this necessarily make this fair, give fair credit to the league, and not undermine our game? No IMO, yet this is only a couple of steps away from where we are currently!

Lets go back to the top 5, cut out the reward for medicoricy, and give the play offs a little more credibility. At least then, if Leeds did win if from 5th, it would surely feel a little more justified and earned to them, by the fact that though they had an indifferent season, they proved their 'champion' worth by beating every team above them away from home, rather than in its present guise, where they have only needed to beat a couple of also rans and one top team to possibly end up as champions!

If's buts and maybe's.

Any kind of Play off series undermines a "True League" and at risk of upsetting Wolf fans this years league and every other since 98 hasn't been a true league and isn't a true representation of what would have happened if a true "League" style competition were in place at the start of they year!

You gave 1 Absurd scenario (In your words) and a couple more above.
Those aren't the rules and although you may say were a couple of steps away from this I think were a million miles away!

This whole thread started about 3rd & 5th seeded teams getting to a play-off final and is that right?
If it isn't right then we may as well scrap the Play-offs altogether (Which is another argument altogether) which as you want to go to a 5 team play off means we could have a 2nd 5th team Grand Final. Would that be right?

I'm not arguing about whethere there should or shouldn't be play offs (I think their should and the Top 6 system worked best IMO).
What I am saying is that you cant have a play off series and then not like the outcome of that series! Who's to say if we'd had a Top 5 those same 2 teams wouldn't have made the final? (And before anyone states you it wouldn't becaus e either 1or2 would have to make the final then who's to say that Saints/Leeds wouldn't have played the season differently as would every club and not finished in different positions?).

That is my argument tbh...scrap the play offs altogether, but if we cant have this then at least have some semi credible play off system, which at least makes some sense, and gives more weight to a team's performance in the league! (ie the old top 5 or 6)

Its laughable that two average teams now have the chance to become champions by doing nothing more but playing well for 3 weeks out of a 30 week season.

That there is where you are made to look a fool.Saints have reached the grand final with a massive injury list that had pryce,perry and eastmond out for nearly all the season .Had these been fit imagine what an average saints side would of been like.

Champions are made when they do the business when it matters most which usually requires beating the best, when the pressure is on and when silverware is on the line. That's when champions are made and not when they're fighting over two points at The Willows.

That was the last time Wire won the league

Well said my Wigan friends. We should ignore the farce of Old Trafford next week and get together and petition the RFL to "recognise Warrington as the true champions". Having the Wiganers support would be a huge boost to our campaign and it's great to know that we stand shoulder to shoulder in times of a crisis.