you have to remember this generation has seen England win a world cup in Aus in dramatic fashion. If jojnny wilkinson and jason robinson walked down a street majority of people would instantly recognise them i don't think you could say the same for owen farrell and chris ashton.

But there is no doubt the major aspect keeping rugby union dominate in england is they have a strong hold on the schools down south and have a very strong international scene. We have to try and deal with the Aussies and try and make them see not everything is about origin and NRL.

Some of the posts from Aussie fans on Total RL will leave you even more despondent.

It's the usual Aussie bullsh#t and bravado. "We can easily absorb these losses!" "The NRL has always produced stars, we'll just produce more!" "No individual players is bigger than the NRL!" etc etc - yawn - etc.

There is very little acknowledgement of or concern about how seriously damaging this is to the British game.

The big draw in RU will always be the internationals -look the six nations crowds and tv coverage, for what are often poor viewing spectacles. Add in the interest in home nations versus Southern Hemisphere teams as well.

Sadly RL killed the international scene several years ago, is there really that much interest in England v Wales or England v France (look at the crowds) and with no GB v AUS or Lions there is nothing to compete. The RL world Cup actually generated interest - sadly this will fade quickly as there is no follow up to cash in on the interest.

RL will never compete with RU now for the following reasons

1.Salary Cap
RL stick to it - RU has various get outs such as central contracts/sponsorships, so not a level playing field. RU can pay vastly more by various dodgy deals - players in RL have barely seen their salaries keep pace with inflation (or even drop in real terms).

2.Profile
RU has a much higher profile - outside of the NW of England RL is seen as a minor sport, RU is big in large parts of England, France, Scotland, Ireland,Wales and even Italy. RL can't even expand out of the M62 corridor to any extent just look at London's travails.

3. Sponsorship
RU attracts big name companies with serious money - what do we get? A utility company barely anyone has heard of and that is an improvement on last year. Says it all really. Still RL manages on a regular basis to shoot itself in the foot - is there really any confidence in the leadership of the game or the parochial attitudes of various chairmen (and no IFL is not exempt in this)


RL has been in major decline since the 80s - the formation of SL give it a brief burst of life but that faded and the professionalism of RU has seen it forge ahead - except for issues in Wales. The gulf is getting larger year on year and if RU can raid players from the NFL then things are worse than ever.

The earning potential for high-profile RU players *after* they've left the game is incalculably higher than RL.

They can get paid an *unbelievable* amount of money for corporate dinner speeches, or addressing a "team-building" exercise, or "hosting" a box at an international. Ex RL-pros are stuck with speaking at an amateur club for buttons, sitting next to Stevo in a TV gantry, or actually having to work for a living. Until RL gets a proper foothold in the South and/or bigtime corporate links this will continue to be the case, fair or not.

The situation might be different for an NRL legend in Sydney, but maybe Burgess sees his long-term family future in the UK.

He certainly didn't appear to until this week, but maybe something has happened behind the scenes. There have been some unsubstantiated rumours about a bust-up between him and Maguire.

I really think it comes down to the money only. In terms of profile Sam Burgess in Sydney is bigger IMO than Sam Burgess in RU would be. However, combine a higher club salary with £10K (?) per international and these regular international players are set for life.

We need the international scene to grow, the interest in the WC proved that. Over here we need an occasional GB tour which IMO would actually strengthen the other home nations whilst down under I would like to see changes to the qualification criteria that somehow forces those who could play for Tonga, Samoa etc to do so when they are at their prime, not when Aus or NZ are done with them. If this could generate greater income we could eventually pay our stars what they are worth. The problem with this is that the solution is definitely long term whereas the crisis is immediate.

Finally, my old hobby horse. We need our chairmen to get tougher with contracted players!

I've reached the stage where I agree with you on this. I've always been half-and-half, mainly because I felt that if there was a chance the player might come home again, we'd want first refusal, so it would be better not to have a bust-up with him. Also, I'd never want a player on my books who didn't want to be here.

But I'm afraid the players and their agents are really taking advantage now. On top of that, do we really want them back after RU has ruined them? Probably not.

I can understand selling a player when he's only got a year left - that way you at least get a transfer fee. But if he's got something like three years remaining, I think it has to be a case of telling Bath or whoever "come back in two years time". We're the only losers otherwise.

Aside from the obvious factors (short career + lots more money + being managed by agents motivated by income), the most ominous influence is a growing trend that going to RU is a logical next step for high-profile RL players.

This culture has been around for a while and it is growing. It also does not help when RL "legends" like Farrell have such a high profile in RU as well as a link with their old code.

As I said on another thread, I'm afraid we may need to cut that link.

Not through bloody-mindedness, but because we can't afford to let the likes of Farrell in particular anywhere near our clubs or training camps, as he hasn't proved himself trustworthy enough.

Okay, we can't stop them going to matches, going into players' bars etc, but surely the days of having them making motivational speeches in dressing rooms and handing out shirts have got to be over? As long as these guys are held up as paragons of RL excellence they are gong to be an influence on young, impressionable players. And when the reality is that they are plotting the game's downfall, they shouldn't be welcome at any official level.

I think the main reason for Burgess’s decision is cash, but you’d have to ask him; there may also be the thought of a higher personal profile, and better known place in sporting history if he does do well. If he said it was just for a new challenge in a different sport that was behind his decision, then I would doubt that one myself. As for RU v RL then I’ve said it here many times before, we are not fashionable enough, even the “dark side” RU, a much more fashionable sport than ours, can’t compete with football, football is so big even the old school ties can’t bridge that sporting chasm. Football is one sport that has done what RL has never done, or been allowed to do, that is become fashionable from the working classes up. How the RFL well do it I have no idea, it’s much easier said than done when the dark side has its trendy hand-made Italian size tens push down well and truly on the throat of RL. RU has done a very good job for decades in portraying themselves as an upper-middle class sport, while RL is a sport played by the sons of illiterate flat-capped beer swilling, whippet dragging, pigeon fancier ex-miners, and my flat-cap’s off to them; they’ve done a great job of it!

I don't think RU enjoys a good reputation across the board. Most football fans I know mock it for being the preserve of ex-public schoolboys, and while players might be well-known in RU areas, I'll bet there are vast swathes of British society where no-one could give two hoots about them. I'd also question whether Sam B would be any more in demand for the after-dinner circuit in Britain as an ex England RU man than he would in Sydney as an ex-RL star, and at least in the latter case he'd know he'd earned the accolade.

I think it's almost as weird as it's disappointing. But I'd love to hear some kind of official response from the RL authorities rather than the stock "we can always find another one" tosh that we get treated to whenever this happens. I'm fed up to the back teeth with their bloody inertia in the face of this problem.

I'm going to answer this as a RL player who has played both sports. I'll put myself in SB shoes.

Rugby League
- Super League
- NRL
- 4 Nations
- Ashes (rarity these days)
- World Cup (3 teams with a decent shout)
- GB Lions Tour? (essentially England)
- Decent media coverage
- Decent wages
- Half filled stadia unless big games (applies internationally as well)

Rugby Union
- British & Irish Lions Tours
- 6 Nations
- Calcutta Cup
- World Cup
- Heineken Cup
- Packed out stadia
- Heavy media coverage
- Obscene wages

It's a no brainer. I would rather play RL but internationally give me RU any day. That's why he's gone, not to play Aviva Premiership with Bath but the chance to play 6 Nations, GB&I Lions, Heineken Cup. The chance to play an actual meaningful international game in packed out stadiums. You can't tell me you've not been sat at home watching England at Twickenham, seen it packed out, heard the stadium singing to Swing Lo' Sweet Chariot and thought "I wish RL was like that". I do.

I don't blame him TBH. I'm gutted but it's a testament to the poor state of RL internationally and at SL level that this has occurred. I'd say it's time for a complete overhaul at RFIL but that time has been and gone.

It would be interesting to compare a top NRL players salary and a top premiership rugby union player i bet its not much different at all, one thing is they have just poached England rugby leagues best player and they know he will attract a hell of a lot of media attention so i wouldn't be surprised if he's being paid more than some of the England RU stars.

I would also predict he won't be in union for the 2019 world cup. He is going over there to play in the 2015 world cup and 2016 olympics 7s and then will leave.

I’ve often wondered why the six nations are so well frequented seeing as the game is so obviously mind numbingly boring, and all I can come up with is that for the blokes anyway it’s a top day out with the lads for a blow out, and booze up, and there’s nowt wrong with that. But don’t tell her indoors.