No, i didn't and haven't over time.

I used major domestic trophies to show how poor we have been under Wane.

If I had wanted to I could have had a better point if I included LLS

I didn't until someone further up the thread had started using it as a defence.

Read the thread lad, not just the posts you agree with.

Yes, we were spending more than any other club for the last few years..

Enjoy the road to survival,

And as if to prove the point your very first statistic is again incorrect. As the GF this year hasn't been played there has neither been 14 nor 21 completed competitions! What's more, you've been using this same argument since pretty early season so none of the 7th year competitions had been completed from a Wigan perspective. Don't you actually understand anything I've said? You're all over the place with your arguments and seem completely oblivious to the fact!

Where have I said I'm satisfied? Please point this out. Or are you once again trying to skew an argument in your favour erroneously? That was a rhetorical question by the way..

As for the 50% of all trophies garbage you're spouting, I asked for other examples where this was the case. You mentioned premiership football where success can still be bought and, even here, no individual team dominates in the manner you're suggesting. Someone in the premiership is spending more than everyone else. By your reckoning they should be winning at least 50% of all available trophies. Why are they not? Shall I tell you why? Because it's a completely unrealistic scenario. Now factor in the fact that our club exists in a salary capped and income restricted sport, where any advantage in spend is limited to say the least, and the proposition becomes even more fanciful!

Our trophy haul is comparable to the top few performers in any professional team sport in the world with very few exceptions. If you broaden this to include final appearances we would be among the very top few percent. For some reason this is an unacceptable situation in Ziggy world. Get real mate!

No one is arguing that we should be satisfied. As a club we should always strive to improve (that's the bit we agree on). However, suggesting anything less than 50% of all available trophies is a failure is both arrogant and ridiculous.

My first point will be correct in around 8 weeks time, but your foaming at the mouth really amuses me.

I understand fully everything you have said....but...i Disagree with you.

I think you're wrong.

Who's the player? Sorry if it's been revealed.

A.N. Other is my guess.

So this could be page after page focused on a fake comment? Brilliant.

You disagree with facts? Which facts exactly do you disagree with?

So basically you accept you're wrong and, as a consequence, are now changing your position to "I hope to be right sometime in the future".

There's only one person "foaming at the mouth" as you put it. I'm merely correcting your inaccuracies.

Just fior the record and for the avoidance of any doubt, you're much less intelligent than you seem to think you are. Your smugness is ill placed.

One comment that isn't fake is that most first team players were utter s**t against St Helens.

So it may be a bit of excuse-making where this particular player is concerned, assuming he actually exists.

Team were poor, but we did have 7 first team players missing. They are by far the best team in the comp and only scored one more try than us...

It's not just they only scored one more than us, it's the fact that they completely dominated us and outplayed us in every department without getting out of 2nd gear.

Take 7 players out of any team and see how they go v Saints.

I'm of the belief this game will mean zero if we get to the GF come Oct, which still currently could well happen.

Saints were missing their two best strike players, so they didn't have quite so glaring an advantage as you make it sound (and I'm not sure that George Williams on his current form is anything like so big a loss as Ben Barba, or even that Lockers is given that he only ever plays 1/3 of a game).

In addition, we missed several one-on-one tackles and knocked on numerous times early in the tackle count, which are basics for all professional players and can't be laid squarely at the door of the coach.

I don't doubt that we can give them a game when we're at full strength, but I'd question any first-teamer who sounds like he's passing the buck. We need a new coach, agreed. But that's happening. But we also need several new players, because quite a few of our current crop are deeply unimpressive.

Hopefully come Sept/Oct we see a full squad firing on all cylinders.

Tomkins
Manfredi Hankinson/Sarge Gildart Burgess
Williams Woods
Clubb Tommy Flower
Faz Bateman
Lockers
-------------
Powell Greenwood Sutton Hamlin

Would give any team in SL a good go.

Ah, resorting to insults.

I think we know what that means.

Ta-ta love.