I don't disagree with much of this, but the bit I've underlined is plain daft.

George will have no one to blame if his career continues to stagnate but himself.

And 23 is not young in halfback terms. Look at Sam Tomkins. By 25, he was starting to slow down a bit. Andy Greg and Shaun E were already established names by 23.

George is a talent, but he needs to start getting it right very, very soon, or he risks becoming yet another of these talented kids who never made it as an adult (though he will be rich, which is one thing I suppose).

Not sure why you think that. As the cap rules tell us for him to be a marquee player he must be being paid at least £175K and I'd guess it is probably more. By paying such a wage to a player who was what, 20 or 21, at the time he first got it we were able to beat off the NRL interest and the reason we could is even with their big salary cap advantage even they don't fling silly money (in their books) at junior players. Even they have their limits and that is why he didn't go, not because of lack of genuine interest in the first place. Doubt they would be interested at the minute.

The trouble is he now has the salary of a player who you would expect to be exerting the influence if an Edwards, an Andy Farrell or a Lockers on games. All of whom were doing so at 23 and he isn't.

As to Warrington and Roberts, who cares if he has not lived up to his status and is off early? Nearly all our former players who went to the NRL came back early. Sometimes it just does not work out but I don't see what Roberts situation has to do with the question of whether Williams is currently good enough and worth the money. At the moment it looks like both Wigan and Warrington backed the wrong players for marquee status.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but using it it looks like we might have been better letting him go to the NRL and it might have been better for him as well. Had he gone he'd have been a junior player over there without the expectation placed on him here because marquee is not just a name to allow a SC dispensation but it is instead supposed to be a way to get a top player in your side, not a work in progress.

I say that because there seems to be an assumption that the so called marquee status should be used to sign superstars.

I prefer reality, the top players in the world are on circa £500k per season. A SL club would have to significantly top that to tempt them over here. I used Roberts at Warrington as an example as they had to use the marquee status to sign a bang average Australian half, he’s a good player but never what anyone would define as marquee.

Wigan has a choice, they made the right one imo in keeping GW. To do so and to limit his salary cap value they used the marquee dispensation.

People need to get over this idea that we can sign anyone from the NRL that is genuinely a marquee player unless a club is lucky enough and prepared to take a gamble on players like Barba.

I find it very odd that, as a Wigan fan you seem to think we’d have been better off letting a top (by SL standards) young, home grown half go so we can sign a NRL also ran.

I’m not saying GW is an awful player but since his marquee status he has been absolutely bang average to p*ss poor bar a few games here and there.

Is it coaching? Possibly. Or is it that teams have figured out his hip, skip, jink and dummy? Being completely honest I’m leaning towards the latter rather than the former.

When GW broke through SW was the coach and he was exceptional, we panicked and gave him marquee status. A wage rise was definitely in order but marquee? Since then, even with an actual half decent #7 in Matty Smith at his side he has been going downhill.

If a player has marquee status earning marquee wages he better damn well earn it on the pitch. We’ve had players in the past earning a fortune from us who haven’t performed at all bar a few games (Amos Roberts, Stuart Fielden for example) and they were slated on these forums. Why should GW be any different? He shouldn’t. He’s just as open to criticism as anyone else, more so in the fact he’s on the wages he is.

It’s not his fault he is on those wages, I mean if I were him I’d have taken it like a shot, as would any player! But he hasn’t justified it whatsoever since he was put to marquee. He is the one that has to justify his marquee existence, that’s not down to SW or any other coach for that matter. Its firmly on his shoulders to consistently perform to a marquee standard or else the next contract negotiation will go the way that Sam Tomkins’ just has.

Someone mentioned that we’re targeting GW (or suggested similar). Again, if you’re a marquee player you make yourself a target and open to criticism. It comes with the territory I’m afraid.

He made 6 clean breaks against Hull so they’ve not figured out his hop, skip and jump. The lad makes some wrong calls for sure but there’s times when it looks like either Williams will need to break something open for us or we could play all night without scoring.

I’m more inclined to look at his fellow halfback and question why we’re persisting with playing Powell in there. It’s unfair on Powell himself as he’s proven that at first team level he’s a hooker. It is also unfair on Williams (and the team) because the burden on him to create is huge as so little is coming from his partner.

Some will say a marquee player shouldn’t need a partner who compliments his strengths and weaknesses and I get that but we need a better balance.

Though I haven’t seen the game (highlights only), I’m told he had a good game v Hull. I may criticise but I’ll also be fair and give credit where it’s due. Was it a class show? I wouldn’t have thought so but it’s a start and an improvement and I hope he keeps it up and improves per game. His knee injury may curtail that somewhat so perhaps a little patience and understanding is required for any immediate games after he lands back from Denver.

I’m also in full agreement about Powell and the need for a complimentary HB partner. You look at the quality HB partnerships and the ones who are, or are certainly made to look like superstars compliment each other. I questioned Powell to #7 when it was announced and I find myself baffled he’s still there. I still believe a HB partnership of Tomkins and Williams would be a fantastic partnership. It’s unfortunate it won’t happen.

Having said that I’ll go back to a point I made in my previous post; it’s not down to SW, Powell or S Tomkins to help justify GW’s marquee status - it’s down to GW and GW alone. No matter how unfair the circumstances may be.

Here are some stats regarding George Williams this season, comparing all Superleague halfbacks.

Most metres, most clean breaks, most tackle busts and second for try assists.

Can you post the link to those stats? Not that I disbelieve you, but I’d be interested to look at them as a whole, including the bad aspects - I have no intention of throwing them back at you to try and prove my point with stats, such as GW has made the most KO’s or whatever (made up on the spot I may add). I’m not getting bogged down in a “stats war” in a case of differing opinions.

Quote: 100% Warrior "Can you post the link to those stats? Not that I disbelieve you, but I’d be interested to look at them as a whole, including the bad aspects - I have no intention of throwing them back at you to try and prove my point with stats, such as GW has made the most KO’s or whatever (made up on the spot I may add). I’m not getting bogged down in a “stats war” in a case of differing opinions.'" here's the link. You can filter by each stat by clicking on the top line, ie T, TA, Cb, TB etc. www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... ayer_stats

Quote: 100% Warrior "Can you post the link to those stats? Not that I disbelieve you, but I’d be interested to look at them as a whole, including the bad aspects - I have no intention of throwing them back at you to try and prove my point with stats, such as GW has made the most KO’s or whatever (made up on the spot I may add). I’m not getting bogged down in a “stats war” in a case of differing opinions.'" here's the link. You can filter by each stat by clicking on the top line, ie T, TA, Cb, TB etc. www.rugby-league.com/superleague ... ayer_stats

We aren't talking about signing players of £500K a season but using marquee money to keep a junior player and I also don't think anyone has the notion we can sign anyone from the NRL that is genuinely a marquee player. To say Wigan used the marquee slot to limit his cap value is ignoring the fact that to do that means they had to pay him a minimum of £175K. That is what a club has got to pay to a home grown player in order for him to be classed are a marquee and for his cap value to then be limited to £100K. For that level of wage at his age I expect him to be Shaun Edwards MkII. Already.

My suggestion was merely one of hindsight based on the fact he seems to have failed to cope with the pressure of being the starting 6 whereas had he gone to Oz I doubt he would have been and would have been eased into the game. In giving him so much money Wigan ruled itself out of affording having an experienced half back with Williams playing alongside of him or interchanging with. It was a gamble and at the moment it seems bad value for money. I don't know when his contract is up but when it is on current form he'd lose the marquee status and if that meant he left the club I doubt the club would put him back on a marquee contract to keep him.

All that said I think there is something in what NickKiss said about being stuck with Powell as the other half back. I have said the same thing myself before in that Powell offers no threat so opposition teams just look to close Williams down and the expectation is always for Williams to create the break. It was the same when Smith was here and is why I'd love to have seen Sam T in the halves. When Wane leaves and a new coach comes in hopefully we will see some changes that will let GW show he's worth the money.

George had an excellent game on Saturday. He troubled Hull on many occasions. I think the main weakness in his game is in choosing the wrong option too often. That's something he definitely needs to work on. I do feel, however, that this stems in part from the feeling that he needs to do it all himself. Maybe a more 'aware' game will come when he doesn't feel that is the case and that most definitely is a consequence of little coming from his half back partner. If you compare the stats of the two halves the disparity is a real eye opener.

Does anyone remember how Edwards struggled 90/91 ish for around 6/9months?
The knives were out from a lot of fans and he too had occasion to step back inside, die with the ball etc. at times. Audible groans from the terraces when he touched the ball.
To be fair to Edwards he was coming back from that shocker of an injury at Wembley 90.
He was MOS the year before with 25+tries - in 90/91 he scored single figures tries wise in the league and struggled.

However - He was 24/25

We all know what happened next
40+ tries 91/92 - 40+ Tries 92/93 and more importantly became the organiser in chief that a lot of people remember.

Now in no way am I saying I expect George to do the same - However I do believe at 22/23 he needs time to develop, a little bit of patience.

As everything else people can interpret how they choose to - For me if George had left mid way through last year and gone to Wire or NRL there would have been knives out for IL.
We used the 2nd spot for George and for me it was definitely the right decision.

I'm a big fan I don't mind admitting - I don't think Post Marquee last year he was top of his game but I would suspect there are many other reasons that influenced that (Injuries/general poor form of the team) than just George.
As for this season - I thought he was pretty good up to Week after magic - been awful for 3 weeks and bounced back with a very good show last weekend.

What I can see though is there seems to be quite a few who since the Marquee suddenly expected Brett Kenny esque performances, Trent Barrett Mk2 etc.
Paying him the extra money doesn't guarantee that, what it does do is give us a chance that he may progress to that. Without it he would go and I wouldn't blame him one bit.
A lot have made their minds up, I've seen threads and I've spoken to people who've made their minds up - He will now be criticised for everything he does wrong and given no praise for anything he does well.
Some people would rather he fail than admit they were a Touch hasty.

I for one have thoroughly enjoyed watching the lad over the last 4 seasons - and I think he's been ok mostly this year bar 3/4 Bad games
I look forward to watching him a lot more moving forward.

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Your suggestion suggests we wasn’t the starting 6 before the wage increase. He was, he was also coping with the pressure of being the starting 6. The wage increase along with this marquee tag and fans expextation has added to that pressure. Imo the kid is trying too hard and needs to relax and play his game.

I don’t understand why you have such a downer on all things Wigan and look to criticise at every opportunity. Try glass half full for once, it’s much less stressful. "My suggestion was merely one of hindsight based on the fact he seems to have failed to cope with the pressure of being the starting 6 whereas had he gone to Oz I doubt he would have been and would have been eased into the game. In giving him so much money Wigan ruled itself out of affording having an experienced half back with Williams playing alongside of him or interchanging with. It was a gamble and at the moment it seems bad value for money. I don't know when his contract is up but when it is on current form he'd lose the marquee status and if that meant he left the club I doubt the club would put him back on a marquee contract to keep him.'"

I'm well aware of the Salary Cap breakdown.

As for the highlighted - we've lost 4k season ticket holders under Wane. Who's footing the bill for that lost revenue?

You have to cut your cloth accordingly - not every owner wants to throw away good money after bad like they've done at Saints.

I actually don't like the man, but I don't fault him for wanting to reduce running costs considering the current climate Wigan Warriors operates in.