At the end of the year the team has to be something like this

Tomkins
Charnley
Goulding
Reed
Hall
Widdop
Brough
Graham
McIlorum
Burgess
Hock
Ellis
O'Loughlin (capt)

Bench

Roby
Westwood
Mossop
Crabtree

Fair enough mate i see your point but i feel that McIlorum has better forwards at his disposal e.g. Hock, Mossop and Lockers. Say if you put Roby at London (no disrespect) it doesn't mean the pack will suddenly have a massive improvement.
Also feel it could be down to coaching as SW Is getting the best out of Macca.

McBanana should be sacked in my opinion. Never had the experience/ability to do the job in the first place. Which flaming idoit also thought it has to be a full time position???

Your point does not make any sense.

Three of the examples you have given (Hock, Mossop and Lockers) are most likely to be included in the England pack anyway. They will joined by the likes of Westwood, Ellis, Burgess etc.

Hardly a poor pack.

TBH i have seen plenty of posts from Saints fans saying that MM is not ready but Goulding should probably have been included.

The only reason that i can see for this is because Saints provide no real English competition in the 3/4s, whereas Mcllorum's inclusion would be detrimental to golden boy Roby's standing and reputation.

yes exactly? For one this is England i don't see what saints 3/4 line has anything to do with it? And my point was Roby doesn't have the standard of forwards at SAINTS that Mcillorum has at WIGAN, therefore with Mcillorums colleagues it helps him look and play better.
Idiots like you are the reason i rarely bother posting on this Forum.

Thank the lord for small mercies.

Roby plays to make ground for himself. Saints miss countless chances out wide because EVERY quick play the ball he scoots. He does not play for the team in these situations and that is why his stats look so good going forward. I am not knocking how good he is, he is one of the best hookers in the world. But I am not going to accept he is somehow some sort of superman because of how much ground he makes.

If he came to Wigan I wouldn't want him scooting every time we get a quick play the ball, the space is on the fringes more often than not.

making massive amounts of ground is not the be all and end all of rugby league. It's pointless making making 80m every set of 6 from your own try line if you fail to threaten the in goal at the other end. Roby's figures look good for the total meters he makes as he carries the ball more than any other player but not even in the top 50 players when you look at the average per carry. As mentioned before He carries the ball most for saints as he is Plan A in attacking options without a plan B. how many more tries could Saints have scored if the ball had been spread wide from a quick PTB instead of a DH scoot...???
A good pack going forward and winning the tackle in collision and a quick PTB will give the hooker more time to way up options and either scoot or distribute the ball.
Macca at the moment chooses the right option to distribute and put others into space which ultimately creates more scoring chances.

Do Aus and NZ allow the opposition DH to scoot from the PTB, or do they control the ruck area ...?? They don't have weak packs so what kind of hooker will be more effective against an organised defence...??

I wish we had Martin Dermot in this current Wigan team, he'd love working with these forwards, now we has a clever hooker who had zero pace, just a great rugby brain. Micky Mac looks similar in some ways and I hope he can become something like what Dermot was, he was like an extra half back involved in every play.

Quote: sally cinnamon "Remember a few years ago there was that talk that Super League clubs should be paid a fee or given salary cap exemption for each player they produce that is in the England squad (or GB as it was then). From what I remember Leeds and Wigan were quite keen on it (for obvious reasons). How political would it have made the squad selection now though....if Wigan were losing out on money for McIlorum not being in the squad etc.'" Erm, I'd [iimagine[/i that it would be about as political as it is now, given the Elite Representative Squad Dispensation Allowance provided for in the 2012 Salary Cap Regulations. Unless, of course it became overwhelmingly obvious that Wigan where the biggest beneficiaries of this allowance; in which case it would automatically become incredibly political; and the latest RL Fans cause célèbre with 50 page threads on the VT and other such nonsense. www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... on%20E.pdf Section 5.13 for anyone interested.

Quote: sally cinnamon "Remember a few years ago there was that talk that Super League clubs should be paid a fee or given salary cap exemption for each player they produce that is in the England squad (or GB as it was then). From what I remember Leeds and Wigan were quite keen on it (for obvious reasons). How political would it have made the squad selection now though....if Wigan were losing out on money for McIlorum not being in the squad etc.'" Erm, I'd [iimagine[/i that it would be about as political as it is now, given the Elite Representative Squad Dispensation Allowance provided for in the 2012 Salary Cap Regulations. Unless, of course it became overwhelmingly obvious that Wigan where the biggest beneficiaries of this allowance; in which case it would automatically become incredibly political; and the latest RL Fans cause célèbre with 50 page threads on the VT and other such nonsense. www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... on%20E.pdf Section 5.13 for anyone interested.

Not read through the whole eight pages so this may have been mentioned previously.
Goulding has been wearing strapping to his thigh for a number of matches now and this suggests that he is carrying some kind of strain.
It maybe that SW has asked for him to be rested (yes, after asking for his inclusion) as there is another Exiles game when he could be selected and played.