FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE |
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| Quote: Egg Chasing "The loss of Woolf is massive. He took you backwards in attack from the Holbrook days IMO, but what he added in defence and the ability to do the basics right time and time again is what you made you so tough to beat.
I do wonder, and of course hope, as an oppposing fan whether the WCC win was your peak. Everything you worked towards over the last few years was to win the WCC (Woolf being there was a strange one for me) and now that you have (as well as doing a record 4 in a row) you'll start the downturn now that might see one or two tough seasons whilst you replace the likes of Walmsley, Lomax, Makinson, Percival with the next cabs from the rank.'"
Fair comments. I do think this will be our last season of potentially winning it again and then there will be a transition period unless we get lucky and recruit really well. Matautia will go back to Aus and maybe Sironen, and then as you mention Makinson et al aren't getting any younger and have played a lot of rugby.
Woolf being there was a thank you really as it was his team that won the GF to enable us to play that game in the first place. Him and Wellens are very good friends and will still remain in close contact. Lets not forget that in 3 years, Woolf only managed one WCC game due to Covid.
We do have a couple of potential superstars in the Academy but they are 2-3 years away from being first teamers yet so we are relying on the likes of Welsby staying, Dodd getting back to his pre-injury form and then building a team around the likes of Knowles, Batchelor and Lees.
And I fully agree about Roby. Its clear that they don't think Lussick is the answer so its going to be interesting to see what happens next season.
Roby to Saints is what SOL was to Wigan. Absolute talisman that will be unbelievably hard to replace.
I've been told that we've signed Daryl Clark on a 2 year deal so we'll see if that's true or not.
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| Quote: Stu M "Fair comments. I do think this will be our last season of potentially winning it again and then there will be a transition period unless we get lucky and recruit really well. Matautia will go back to Aus and maybe Sironen, and then as you mention Makinson et al aren't getting any younger and have played a lot of rugby.
Woolf being there was a thank you really as it was his team that won the GF to enable us to play that game in the first place. Him and Wellens are very good friends and will still remain in close contact. Lets not forget that in 3 years, Woolf only managed one WCC game due to Covid.
We do have a couple of potential superstars in the Academy but they are 2-3 years away from being first teamers yet so we are relying on the likes of Welsby staying, Dodd getting back to his pre-injury form and then building a team around the likes of Knowles, Batchelor and Lees.
And I fully agree about Roby. Its clear that they don't think Lussick is the answer so its going to be interesting to see what happens next season.
Roby to Saints is what SOL was to Wigan. Absolute talisman that will be unbelievably hard to replace.
I've been told that we've signed Daryl Clark on a 2 year deal so we'll see if that's true or not.'"
Clark to Saints is just a naughty rumour at the moment, not confirmed.
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| Saints will be absolutely fine this season. They look like a team full of John Bateman’s at the moment, as in they’re struggling for motivation when it comes to the weekly rounds, after completing the challenge of taking on the NRL’s best (obviously it was just a one off game for Saints). They’ll comfortably get enough wins to make the top 4 and it’ll be business as usual in the play offs and it will be up to all the other teams to see if they can finally get to and past their level. If we think anything else about them, I think we’re being naive.
Longer term there will be a drop off. That is only natural. I think it’ll be gradual but dependant on the ability to keep Welsby and Dodd (although I do feel Dodd has been given a billing he’s not yet really earned), it could be pretty swift. Nobody knows how everything will play out but Roby will retire, Percival looks shot to bits, Lomax, Makinson, Walmsley etc are no spring chickens and the overseas second rowers look like leaving. If you added in exits for Welsby/Dodd, it could go up in smoke pretty quickly. I don’t expect it to happen though.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "Saints will be absolutely fine this season. They look like a team full of John Bateman’s at the moment, as in they’re struggling for motivation when it comes to the weekly rounds, after completing the challenge of taking on the NRL’s best (obviously it was just a one off game for Saints). They’ll comfortably get enough wins to make the top 4 and it’ll be business as usual in the play offs and it will be up to all the other teams to see if they can finally get to and past their level. If we think anything else about them, I think we’re being naive.
Longer term there will be a drop off. That is only natural. I think it’ll be gradual but dependant on the ability to keep Welsby and Dodd (although I do feel Dodd has been given a billing he’s not yet really earned), it could be pretty swift. Nobody knows how everything will play out but Roby will retire, Percival looks shot to bits, Lomax, Makinson, Walmsley etc are no spring chickens and the overseas second rowers look like leaving. If you added in exits for Welsby/Dodd, it could go up in smoke pretty quickly. I don’t expect it to happen though.'"
Its funny that you reference Dodd as this season (so far) he looks to be playing well within himself. Yes he had a good WCC game culminating in the winning DG but worryingly he is playing reminiscent of what Luke Walsh was like after his bad injury.
Last season up to Good Friday he was superb and our attack in general was great, we were scoring for fun and probably the best period we had attack wise under Woolf. Then of course he gets the bad injury. He seems hesitant to take the line on this season as much, he has a great step but seems happy to just pass now. His last tackle kicking options have been really poor too. Naturally I'm hoping his game improves the more games he plays and his confidence returns as there is a very good player there.
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| Quote: Stu M "Agree with you and your mate. We definitely aren't defending with anywhere near the same vigour as the last few seasons, we do seem to be falling off tackles and are missing way more than we normally would.
The Knowles/Sironen/Matautia ban bingo game has started in earnest, its Knowles's turn this week although to be fair he won't be as big of a loss as previously in my opinion, as he has started the season poorly. A week off may do him the world of good.
I also feel we may have under-estimated just how good Woolf was. He goes to the Dolphins (granted not as head coach) and they are 3 from 3 and smashing teams in defence.
I was very critical of us at the Hull game however in the cold light of day when I reflected, we had Batchelor, Hopoate, Hurrell and Matautia all missing and then lost Percival in the warm up. That then meant Makinson went to centre and Ritson came in. We then lost Davies in the first half who had been playing as centre so Sironen had to play there. The back line was decimated which was reflected in our clunky attack.
Also it was obvious that Hull were going to have a response after being smashed by Salford and played quite well.
At this stage in the season it was just good to get a win again. Worryingly though both Lomax and Walmsley are way below par.'"
I think that is a honest summary. From a selfish perspective I hope it continues until after Good Friday . Perhaps the derby will reinvigorate Saints?
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27542_1296773722.jpg RICHARDS IS SUPERMAN!!!!
Wire_91 wrote:its your first final in about 8 years and now you ravin and rantin about it F**k off, and ill be going old trafford tomoz cheering on the saints and ill be writing on this forum givin you loads of shi* when your drying you eyes and the wire fan will be here handing out the tissues in the thousands, thats if you do take that many fans cause now it looks like its your fans who have jumped on the band wagon now your in a final, this time last year there was only 1000 people in the jjb and now its fillin up cause youve won the league hahaha proper true supporters you are:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_27542.jpg |
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| Quote: Egg Chasing "And RL in general. Wish he'd put his hand up for England in the WC. Such a top player.'"
Add Roby Lomax, Percival Walmsley and Dodd to our World Cup squad I think we’d have beaten Samoa and really competed with the aussies in the final
Saints still the bench mark til they aren’t but I think Wire are the team to beat this year. All the new props seem to be doing well, balanced half back combo and fast outside backs.
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| Quote: Stu M "Its funny that you reference Dodd as this season (so far) he looks to be playing well within himself. Yes he had a good WCC game culminating in the winning DG but worryingly he is playing reminiscent of what Luke Walsh was like after his bad injury.
Last season up to Good Friday he was superb and our attack in general was great, we were scoring for fun and probably the best period we had attack wise under Woolf. Then of course he gets the bad injury. He seems hesitant to take the line on this season as much, he has a great step but seems happy to just pass now. His last tackle kicking options have been really poor too. Naturally I'm hoping his game improves the more games he plays and his confidence returns as there is a very good player there.'"
The injury will have had a huge bearing, no doubt about it. I like the lad, I really do and it feels like he will go on to be an international halfback and have a great career but the billing he gets is huge sometimes for a kid just starting out. I think it’s the links to Oz, at the same time as Welsby being talked up for an NRL gig, that pricks up my attention. I’m not sure he’s ready for that yet and maybe that just comes back to missing most of last season. They’re a similar age but it feels like Welsby is well down the track in comparison when it comes to development, experience and ready made talent. I’d put it this way, if Welsby left, I think that would sting badly and to get as good a replacement would be extremely difficult. I don’t think losing Dodd would be half as difficult to get over (as things stand).
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| Quote: NSW "Add Roby Lomax, Percival Walmsley and Dodd to our World Cup squad I think we’d have beaten Samoa and really competed with the aussies in the final
Saints still the bench mark til they aren’t but I think Wire are the team to beat this year. All the new props seem to be doing well, balanced half back combo and fast outside backs.'"
Very early days for Wire IMO. I’d take a fit and firing Saints side to hunt Vaughan down in games and close Williams off and the rest would fall after that. Maybe Maguire being put in to that side kicks them on even further and I’ll readjust my opinion after that.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "The injury will have had a huge bearing, no doubt about it. I like the lad, I really do and it feels like he will go on to be an international halfback and have a great career but the billing he gets is huge sometimes for a kid just starting out. I think it’s the links to Oz, at the same time as Welsby being talked up for an NRL gig, that pricks up my attention. I’m not sure he’s ready for that yet and maybe that just comes back to missing most of last season. They’re a similar age but it feels like Welsby is well down the track in comparison when it comes to development, experience and ready made talent. I’d put it this way, if Welsby left, I think that would sting badly and to get as good a replacement would be extremely difficult. I don’t think losing Dodd would be half as difficult to get over (as things stand).'"
Dodd playing in that saints side has had it easy almost especially compared to Smith in 2019 for example.
He's obviously a great player btw, but that explains the high billing.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "The injury will have had a huge bearing, no doubt about it. I like the lad, I really do and it feels like he will go on to be an international halfback and have a great career but the billing he gets is huge sometimes for a kid just starting out. I think it’s the links to Oz, at the same time as Welsby being talked up for an NRL gig, that pricks up my attention. I’m not sure he’s ready for that yet and maybe that just comes back to missing most of last season. They’re a similar age but it feels like Welsby is well down the track in comparison when it comes to development, experience and ready made talent. I’d put it this way, if Welsby left, I think that would sting badly and to get as good a replacement would be extremely difficult. I don’t think losing Dodd would be half as difficult to get over (as things stand).'"
Agree about Welsby leaving hurting us massively.
Ironically we have a Welsby identikit MKII in the Academy at the moment. Wigan were well in for him but thankfully he chose Saints. Rogues knows who he is- Harry Robertson.
I first saw him in the U16 Saints v Wigan scholarship game when him and Jack Farrimond from Wigan were the best two lads by a distance. He’s a few years away yet though.
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| Quote: Stu M "Agree about Welsby leaving hurting us massively.
Ironically we have a Welsby identikit MKII in the Academy at the moment. Wigan were well in for him but thankfully he chose Saints. Rogues knows who he is- Harry Robertson.
I first saw him in the U16 Saints v Wigan scholarship game when him and Jack Farrimond from Wigan were the best two lads by a distance. He’s a few years away yet though.'"
Heard the name but not seen anything of him. Only seen a few minutes here and there of Farrimond and he looks a real talent. As you say though, there’s a long way to go before first team rugby yet, so anything could happen with any of them. Wigan seem to like the young centre, who is around the same age, I think he’s called Nathan Lowe? You probably know more of him than me but I believe he’s another good prospect.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "Heard the name but not seen anything of him. Only seen a few minutes here and there of Farrimond and he looks a real talent. As you say though, there’s a long way to go before first team rugby yet, so anything could happen with any of them. Wigan seem to like the young centre, who is around the same age, I think he’s called Nathan Lowe? You probably know more of him than me but I believe he’s another good prospect.'"
He played FB that night but is obviously a centre.
Practically all the team from that night now play for the Academy. It’s a special team this current Wigan Academy one, some outstanding kids.
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| To be fair we are assessing each ban on its own merits. This one was appealed not in relation to guilt but more with the grading so I don't think it was frivolous. We were never going to win this one given the reaction from us winning the one last season that meant he could play in the GF.
I appreciate Knowles has previous and should know better but there is still no real consistency when you see similar type of incidents not being punished. Bennison took a knee to the ribs in the act of scoring on Friday and nothing was said yet Warrington have had three 8 point tries already.
You see it in the NRL too. Kafusi has just been banned yet Sua'ali'i did one that was worse against NZ Warrirors and was only fined. They made a big deal out of it on NRL 360 as the Dolphins used that tackle as mitigation but failed in the downgrade.
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