And I was called rotten by the usual suspects when I dared to suggest that McDermott was not the success as some seemed to think he was during his time at Leeds.

Evidently, some players and clubs have as well!

Like many of your financial figures and adulation of all things IL!

Except you wasn’t called rotten. You were offered facts against your argument and decided to double down claiming it was the players who didn’t need coaching.

I’m happy to debate away with you Ruddy but you don’t back any of your points up at all, make outlandish statements and get all offended when someone offers an opposing view which is backed up. The funny thing is you post some good posts from time to time which I get on board with and I make an active effort to say so when you do. Primarily though my impression of you is you post outlandish statements to garner a reaction so you can play the victim “everyone’s piling on me” role. It doesn’t wash.

Which financial figures?
What subject?
Any evidence to support that claim?

I won't hold my breathe, same as I haven't done in the past when you haven't offered any.

Those hyperthetical ones you used to explain why we couldn't afford Sam.

The gang of four would have signed him.

Oh yeah
This hypothetical ones, that I said were hypothetical
Rather than the real ones which % wise pro-rataand factually are absolutely true

Your right, the gang of 4 would have, then had to sell all their assets to pay off huge debts and the tax man (whilst fighting off legal cases for fraud after trying to in effect blackmail the local newspaper! Ah the good old days!).

Or

Pay 90% of our cap to 25% of its players which then left us in the state we were in 2005/2006 etc (and to be honest it happened in 2000 through to 2004 as well we just got awaybwith it better)
Good old Maurice (and Dave, you know, a multi millionaore with far more money that Leneghan, which is what some want at Wigan now, that went well didn't it).

This might be the unpopular opinion, but there's option 3 - a chairman that's solely focused on what's best for Wigan RL. I do commend IL for his integrity, but it's not the route I'd take if I was a mega rich owner. That sounds harsh, but that's the truth. I'm a Wigan fan and I'd be spending my money for the good of Wigan 1st. If that clashed with what others want, so be it.

I'm going to use Saints as an example, as we're slightly rocky at the min. If I was the owner of Saints, I'd be peeved off that I've had to kinda dismantle a successful side. One that's been pulled together quite well (even tho it's a pain to say it). They chucked Coote a lifeline of sorts and he's been a great player and club man. They've now got Hull KR doing their normal vulture trick and pinching him. How is that fair? I'd happily break the cap to pay for him because, why should you have to break up something that's working well, or cripple yourself in other areas because you've recruited well?

Like any other walk of life, success brings pay rises - but in RL clubs aren't allowed to reward success fairly. Imagine being in a job where you're settled and successful. One day your boss comes to you and says how much they appreciate you and want you to stay, but the gov has said they aren't allowed to give you a pay increase, because it isn't fair on a competitor. You instead have to move to a less successful company, giving up the benefits that come with working for a bigger organisation and move away from an area you & your family are probably settled in too.

Another example would be KR's recent comments about our young lads being the cornerstone of our pack in years to come. I 100% agree with him & want to see that. That however, shouldn't mean we have to cripple ourselves by not being able to being in more experienced bodies to play alongside them. Why should we, in theory, have to let a Partington leave and go to Salford etc? Why can't we have a decent sized squad? One that's made up of good players and good potential? We could easily rotate the lads over the course of a season, but the cap doesn't let you so that.

If I have one fault with IL (he has many great points too btw), it's there's no appetite to be the best club in the world. He's happy to be part of the pack and part of a system that beings malaise to the whole sport.

Whilst the NRL continues to be so successful and rich, Wigan will never be the best club in the world (not the same thing as saying that the odd WCC victory is impossible), because the best players,and crucially, the best coaches, will navigate down there. Wigan should certainly aim to be the best club in the Northern Hemisphere, though.

We're a long way off that! Let's achieve that before we worry about world domination!

As far as the immediate future goes, speaking personally, I'd settle for some entertaining rugby to make me enthusiastic about going to games, home and away. After the last year or two, much more bothered about that than silverware.

Believe it or not, I get that. Maybe it's semantics on my part, but "best in the world" should always be the goal. How you get there involves stages etc, but you don't lower your expectations for what the final goal is.

You hit the nail in regards to the NRL too. It's just something that's accepted, but guys like Danson should be able to say no to stuff like that. Look at PSG as an example, league but that doesn't stop them going big for players. I know that's a world away from us, but hopefully you get my point.

He 100% wants to be the best club in the world. He's a Wigan fan first and foremost.

What he won't do is break the salary cap and pay for players that don't want to be here.

The guy has put at least £5m of his own money (the current debt, all to him) into making sure the club pays up to the cap (over it technically with subsidies for marquee etc) and is competitive including bankrolling the club to the tune of £2.5m during a pandemic. All this why his own fans cba to go to games and claim that he's cheap.

Some decisions around players haven't worked out as we'd hope, but his main mistake has been keeping Lam for 3 years. Prior to that we were the SL Champions.

He also wants the best for the sport. Some of what he says is controversial and upsets a few people but it's usually the clubs who cba doing anything other than collecting the sky money every year, which is going down because RL fans cba watching RL so sky put more money elsewhere like the NFL for example.

I wanna be really clear here - I'm not bashing IL. I like plenty of the stuff he's done and he's been a great owner. I'm also not calling him cheap either - how anyone can look at Robin Park and say that is beyond me.

For me tho until he does break the cap, or at least calls out the BS around it - he's not trying to make the club the absolute best version that it can be. He's playing to rules that, let's face it, are designed to work against Wigan. I'm not talking about fantasy signings here either. I'm talking about being able to retain every talent we want & sign experienced guys to balance it out.

At the min, he's spending money on youth scouting, development & facilities knowing that, ultimately, other clubs will get the benefit of it. That's wrong and not good for Wigan.

Like I said in my OP, why should we have to chose between giving KPP a raise and missing out on a quality player for the here and now too? It almost feels like that, at the min, we know we've got a good crop of lads but they aren't fully ready for a couple of years. We don't want to get rid of them, because like I said they are good lads, but we also can't afford loads of alternatives because we're paying to keep a future team together.

Wire would win it every year if they scrap the cap

I'd hate it too.

Is that better than what we have now tho?

Then surely the logic of what you saying, sarge, points to a smaller SL? Less clubs to share the player pool means better standards, right?

But good luck to Lenegan (or anyone else) getting that past the SL chairmen.