Gareth Ellis is an excellent forward, one of the best in the world. At this point in time he's much better than Joel Tomkins or Gareth Hock. Of course Hovk hasn't taken a rugby ball up in anger for some time and Joel has time on his side.

at the same time Mathers was taking all his training gear to the charity shop , according to his titter account,

I don't disagree, just my 'glass half empty' approach.

Ellis is far superior to any backrow in the UK at the moment. I seriously do not think Hock has performed anywhere near the level Ellis is performing at now.

The bloke was good when he left the UK, now he is outstanding. Regards backrow players he is up there with Thaiday and Taylor competing for best in the game.

If Joel can get close to his level he will have had a very good career.

Spot on Jonh

To suggest Tomkins or Hock are anywere near the level of Ellis is crazy. Ellis was better than Hock even before Hock was suspended so id say hes fields ahead now, Joel still has alot to prove also. Hes been far from spectacular the second half of this year IMO.

Young Ryan King has just been given a new 3 year contract . one for the future i recon

If both were given a shot in the NRL I believe both would surpass Gareth Ellis. I think they have far more attributes to their game than Gareth Ellis does.

Right now there's no debate. Of course Gareth Ellis is better than them both.

A slightly rose-tinted perspective if you ask me. Yes Joel's had a very good season this year but it's been peppered with several brainfarts that have sometimes been costly to the team. If he's going to be considered in the same class as Ellis he needs to cut them out. Hock was the same. He could go from the sublime to the ridiculous in seconds

That's excellent news, and yes, he is!

I think you are underestimating the skill factor of Ellis. I have seen him play centre, standoff and loose all to a very very good standard.

The main difference is that he has a much much better ability to pick a pass than Hock.

He has the meanest defence of any English player and consistently runs some outstanding lines.

I think that is the key word. I do not think Hock will ever be the player Ellis is, but Joel has the potential to IF he can continue to improve and mature whilst becoming more consistent.

Great post that Jonh. As I have highlighted I think that Joel can tick all of those boxes.
Coming through the ranks I have seen Joel perform well at centre , stand off and loose forward and he is not bad with the ball in hand either. He is also a great defender.
I personally love the fact that he is a real big , rough handfull and he will only get better.
I would actually compare him to the young Adrian Morley when he played in the second row at Leeds. Big, rough, quick and can play a bit even if the aggression sometimes goes a bit overboard.
It makes me laugh when some of our supporters criticise him for his aggression when they are also crying out for a " enforcer prop". Why can we not have an " enforcer second row"?
I know he needs to cut out the odd crazy penalty but I think he is developing nicely.
If he keeps it up and turns out like Morley did he will do for me.

Ryan King is a flying machine,as anyone (particularly the Bradford players) who was at the Carnegie nines will testify.
As Geoff says, superb news.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 5928590534 Interesting comment on Piggy riddells future here. Acording to this no Aussie clubs are willing to sign him, so he may have to retire? Cant beleive that.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 5928590534 Interesting comment on Piggy riddells future here. Acording to this no Aussie clubs are willing to sign him, so he may have to retire? Cant beleive that.