no mention of patrick, did he play??

or did he go missing in an aggressive game

Feels like a crisis after one game after reading all this on here. Get rid of him, drop him, sack him, seems a little OTT but thats my opinion.

On last nights game, we don't help ourselves sometimes with these aggressive acts. Our last game featured the now infamous 'Ben Flower Punch', first game back and we're now embroiled in a new controversy (not to the extent of Flowers by any means) which is Matty Smiths kick and Joel Tomkins using Cameron Phelps for tackling practice.

Why? Why have we over the past season developed this over aggressive take to the great game? I'll have that its an agressive game and aggressive men are needed to play it at the highest level but some of our players take it to a whole new level - thuggery. Matty Smith has shown no indication of violent conduct throughout his career, so why now? Was it because he's so fired up to win and when Widnes scored he knew it wouldn't happen so he kicked out? Ben Flower threw his first punch after knocking the ball on when he was certain to score, its got some sort of familiarity to it.

Does SW get them so fired up to win that they will resort to thuggery when something goes wrong? For me thats the bottomline with Flower and why he did what he did, is it the bottomline to Smith and/or Joel as well?

Manfredi plays on both wings, though is more comfortable on the right.

People wouldn't call for Wane's head because he has a track record of success, and is committed (maybe too committed?) to the club. But he is clearly at fault here. I remain supportive of him. I just hope he can get a grip on this ill-discipline, because it will hurt us even more, as if the Grand Final wasn't enough.

I agree with you about Faz. I don't know what's going through his mind at the moment.

Burgess has had one good season and now he's too good for us. I think last night's performance was the rugby gods comment! I don't really care about what is fair to Joe Burgess. He has no real commitment to the club, whereas other players who do, I will cut some slack, like Micky Mac and Faz, because they have earned it. People will claim that he has a right to earn more money and play in a better comp. Well, that's fine, but then you have to live by your decisions and face the consequences.

Those two dropped balls would have both been taken 99 times out of 100 by a proper international winger like Ryan Hall, and whilst I agree about the lack of leadership, those two moments cost us the game. We would have been 22-0 up and out of sight if he'd caught the first one. So he's got to take responsibility for that. If he keeps his place for the Giants game then he's a lucky lad IMO.

While I think he was frustrated at dropping the ball, it was Hohaia wacking him that made him see red. An act far more thuggish than anything witnessed last night, let's not forget! It's too easy to blame Wane for this, a hell of a lot players would have thrown the first punch in Flowers situation, it was the second that was inexcusable. As far as I can remember Joel has always been keen on pinning down opposition when a bit of afters starts.

it surely has to be connected to the coaching?

I thought that Bateman was fantastic for you last night,if he full-fills his undoubted potential he could be a superstar

We played reasonably well in the first half to get to 16-0 up. Widnes weren't going to be pushovers but the players proved in that opening period exactly what they are capable of. It's not the first time that a Wigan side has appeared to lose concentration at a time when they should be trying to reach a point where they are comfortable.

There were some good performances to be found in there. Sutton did very well, Bateman looked strong and Tautai caused problems and will be a really good player with a bit more match fitness. George Williams also did well given the circumstances. He showed some good touches and also an exceptional one with his offload. Late in the game he also seemed to be the only player with the right idea - trying to take the line on and be more direct.

The way the team played in the second half was just unfathomable. They just kept going from one side of the field to the other with little in the way of hard work. not the first time it's happened either. The play was nowhere near direct enough. The Widnes forwards would have been delighted. I can understand the temptation to try to make a man advantage count by looking for an overlap but even those with only the slightest knowledge of the game will realise that the best way to do that is to draw the forwards in down the middle. There was very little of that and as a result the Widnes forwards were nowhere near as tired as they should have been.

The absolute worst part of the game was conceding a try from an overlap despite a man advantage. You'd be appalled at that if you were coaching juniors. There wasn't much threat from the blind side, there was plenty of space out to the right and somehow our defence was caught a man short. I thought Stefan Marsh's tackle attempt on Joel Tomkins was as bad as it gets in terms of defence but I was proven wrong.

If we're going to win any trophies this year we're going to need a lot from our halves. We've got many choices at 6, but the one constant will almost certainly be Smith. He needs to step up this year and prove that the reputation he's building for himself is justified. Green did an awful lot of work that went unnoticed, or perhaps it was more a case of what he did was just like clockwork that it started to be taken for granted. Smith needs to be a leader and take charge and be a dominant voice. Hopefully that will happen over the course of the season. We can't afford to have too much pressure on Williams (or Powell, or Hampshire if they get their chance).

It was a very strange performance from us because as a team we lost the plot yet some individual performances were hugely positive.

I thought Gelling looked like he'll kick on, Joel looks like he's offering that threat he did pre Union(although he needs to give his head a wobble), Logan Tomkins looked sharp, Tautai will be a player for us, Bateman was exceptional, Patrick and Clubb put themselves about in defence and I thought the two youngsters in Williams and Sutton both looked like they belonged in the side.

I say all that yet as a team we weren't composed enough and got sucked in to a scrappy game littered with petulant arguments and silly penalties. I blame the old heads to be honest like Lockers, Bowen, Smith and Joel. They should have gripped hold of that game but as the situation was unfolding and Widnes were scoring I saw very little chatter behind the sticks and even less composure in their play.

I'm happy though. I think the team has masses of potential and we'll get it right next week.

Spot on NK.
Think we will have a roller coaster of a season just didn't expect it to start at Widnes!

I kinda agree, but that is putting the most positive gloss possible on it. Certainly if we want to get anything out of the game against the Giants we'll need to do a lot better.

I feel a lot less worried about the Widnes game after watching Saints v Catalans last night.
Two teams who are expected to up there at the top by the end of the season, just like us.
Both were pretty poor in a stop start game with lengthy injuries and numerous mistakes taking any intensity out of the game.
It put Burgess's errors into perspective seeing Pelissior and Percival drop the ball on or over the line.
Both games looked like first games of the season and not too much to be read into either I suspect.