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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, DaveO , Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy , Bilko , Pemps
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Ainscough was also one of the players last season who always had a few words to say after conceeding a try.

As for the game itself, I didnt go but I do realise that it was a friendly, 110 per cent effort will not have been used for it as players are more worried about getting injured than the actual game in my opinion - afterall when is there ever a good intense friendly game?

(except those boxing day scuffles against Saints)

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Quote: Mr.Side "Ainscough was also one of the players last season who always had a few words to say after conceeding a try.

As for the game itself, I didnt go but I do realise that it was a friendly, 110 per cent effort will not have been used for it as players are more worried about getting injured than the actual game in my opinion - afterall when is there ever a good intense friendly game?

(except those boxing day scuffles against Saints)'"



You are obviously too young to remember the old Wardonia / Locker Cup games v Warrington. It was war on the pitch. I can remember stand up fights between the players, sending offs and mass brawls.

What a great way it was to start a season. icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Rogues Gallery "You are obviously too young to remember the old Wardonia / Locker Cup games v Warrington. It was war on the pitch. I can remember stand up fights between the players, sending offs and mass brawls.

What a great way it was to start a season.
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Quote: Mr.Side "Ainscough was also one of the players last season who always had a few words to say after conceeding a try.'"


Usually "Sorry lads"

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Quote: shooter69 "you must of gone different games to me then pal'"



A few times last year, when our line was broken and last line of defence was Phelps, he had a tendency to step up to quickly. Then the attacker would just step round him and make it look easy. A few occasions this happened, but as we are generally a fast team anyway, when teams do break our line, they rarely get a chance 1 on 1 against Phelps anyway.

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Quote: Paul Youane "Usually "Sorry lads"'"


I think you're mistaking him for Kevin Penny.

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Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "And Richie Mathers is still actually a decent player, who's now doing a lot better and settling in more in his new enivornment. Phelps has, as far as i'm aware played 21 games at fullback last season and the odd one or 2 in Australia. As a youth he was a stand-off as has been said. I personally don't think circa 23 games over his entire career is enough to sufficiently assess. Tell me how many mistakes did he make last season that resulted in a try, and i'm talking genuine mistakes - where he was solely at fault (not a freak bounce, and not a situation where most fullbacks would have been beaten)? I'd be very suprised if it's many.

Clint Greenshields, Brett Hodgson and Brent Webb have all been playing full back for far far far longer than 23 games, they have years (10 years in hodgson's case in first grade alone) on Phelps in this position so it's not really an apples for apples comparison. Cam was a utility back for the club, who's played at centre, stand-off, wing (check out Clint's career and you'll see he wasn't always a fullback either) and oddly hooker that we've slotted into fullback 10 games into last season. So 10 games into the season the guy has played at fullback for one of the few times in his career, and he's gone on and performed well by most of our standards and actually shown a dimension to fullback play that we were solely lacking when both Richards and Roberts had played there. To be perfectly honest i'm pretty amazed he's done as well has he has given the situation and lack of experience, do you not think so?

How could I predict his defence will get better week in week out? Well tackling and catching technique can be worked on and developed, creative spark, and the other big quality for a fullback - bravery (and lets be fair he's got it in spades) can't really be, you've either got them or you haven't. I've gone over Bilko's match reports (to try and use some views that didn't have my own bias) and I can't really find a situation last year where defensive lapses by Phelps cost us a game. Now considering I think it's fair to expect Cam to improve in this position, my own conclusion is what exactly is there to be worried about?

The common theme over and over again, from my own views, from my friends and family (some of which are fans of other clubs), from match reports both on Bilko's site and in Newspapers, and from normally trying to watch a game at least twice if it was televised, is that poor kicking options and silly mistakes (multiple times per match by more than 1 player) by pretty much the entire team over the course of the season are what cost us games. Now what was the 1 position where we did make a signing this off season? Scrum Half in Paul Deacon, who's got a good kicking game. The club and coaches would seem to agree that we're not doing too badly at fullback either.

And that's why I'm not worried. At the end of this season both Cam's and multiple other players contracts are up and can be either renewed or released and replaced with another player. If Cam continues to develop at fullback then fantastic, if he doesn't then we look for a replacement at the end of this season. I think we're in a really good position.

Seriously who in Superleague is actually currently better at fullback overall? My view isHow could I predict his defence will get better week in week out? Well tackling and catching technique can be worked on and developed, creative spark, and the other big quality for a fullback - bravery (and lets be fair he's got it in spades) can't really be, you've either got them or you haven't.'"


I was hoping that his 'tackling and catching techniques' would have already been improved upon in training this year and we might have seen it in the friendly against Wakefield. It could just be (as Noble might say) ' a bad day in the office', but Phelps' has had trouble in defence in the past and so that is why I doubt this was the case. Richards had a poor game and I would be more inclined to use that cliche towards his performance than Phelps'. The bravery point I couldn't agree with more. The lad has so much heart and really puts himself in some real danger at times for the benefit of the team. I don't think he's a bad player and I think he could be a great fullback. His attacking attributes from playing stand off at Reserve Australian level is there for all to see. But at times his defence can let him down and it is becoming a reoccurrence in his games. It started as a one off and then it became a problem as it became more prominent in his game.

Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "At the end of this season both Cam's and multiple other players contracts are up and can be either renewed or released and replaced with another player. If Cam continues to develop at fullback then fantastic, if he doesn't then we look for a replacement at the end of this season. I think we're in a really good position.'"


I agree.

Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "is that poor kicking options and silly mistakes (multiple times per match by more than 1 player) by pretty much the entire team over the course of the season are what cost us games.'"


It was a factor and the point about the Paul Deacon signing is true. I think we also lacked composure close to our opponents line and maybe the creative spark to unlock tighter defences. The lack of fire power in the forwards may have been another contributing factor towards this.

But my point about Phelps is just that he could be a weakness in our team. An area for opponents to target and gain great success from, which at fullback is worrying because it is such a pivotal position and very defence orientated - it's the last line of defence. A nervous and unsure fullback who is in two minds whether to take a kick on the full or let it bounce is not good and should be a concern to the coaching staff. I wouldn't make too much of a fuss yet for this season because it is a clean slate for all players and it has only been one game. But should it continue I think we may see a few more people get a bit more twitchy about Phelps' at fullback.

My opinion on better fullbacks that Phelps' in Super League (which my prove unpopular) but bias asideLet's just see how Cam goes on this season, but if he's only as good as last season (and you'd honestly expect him to settle even more with more games at fullback) then we'll not be doing too badly in this position.'"


The point you make in brackets is part of why I am a little concerned. I would have expected Phelps' to come back a much improved player after a full pre-season on the back of a Super League season at fullback. From reports that doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps we haven't started much ball work yet and been more fitness oreintated? Could have just been 'one of those games? We'll soon find out once the season begins. I think it should fair to say that if Phelps' doesn't improve from last season we look somewhere else for a new fullback? That is my view on the matter. He had a good season last season, but needs to continue to keep making strides in his game.

Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "I'd like to think we'll start to make some cheeky enquiries about Gareth Widdop long term'"


Without doubt. I hope MaGuire is monitoring him over the course of this season at Melbourne. At least enquire so we know where we stand. Fullback is a position we could definitely look to strengthen.

Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "btw Cadoo, i'm not having a go, merely expressing a view
'"


Nah don't worry about it - I knew that. It's what these forums are for. Rugby League debate is great. icon_smile.gif

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Quote: Paul Youane ""Sorry lads"'"

Richie Mathers' catchphrase

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tbh, just taking the hudds away game (round 27) as an example - you should watch the highlights again closely on superleague TV, and you'll notice that we as a team were totally crap that day, and that pretty much every try we conceded was a team failing not 1 player cocking anything up. Multiple players were at fault for the trys, including Sam and Lockers. You may find if you go back through the games that he wasn't as bad as you're remembering.

I was surprised on seeing some of the games that we weren't as bad or that particular players weren't as bad as people were talking about. It's quite good to seem them again now when there's no emotion involved.

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Quote: Coventry Warrior! "I think you're mistaking him for Kevin Penny.'"



Who?

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Quote: MattyB "Who?'"


Also known as Martin Offiah II

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Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "tbh, just taking the hudds away game (round 27) as an example - you should watch the highlights again closely on superleague TV, and you'll notice that we as a team were totally crap that day, and that pretty much every try we conceded was a team failing not 1 player cocking anything up. Multiple players were at fault for the trys, including Sam and Lockers. You may find if you go back through the games that he wasn't as bad as you're remembering.

I was surprised on seeing some of the games that we weren't as bad or that particular players weren't as bad as people were talking about. It's quite good to seem them again now when there's no emotion involved.'"


You sure of that? icon_wink.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

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Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "And Richie Mathers is still actually a decent player'"
icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif x 8 Million!! icon_wink.gif

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Quote: andyed-wiganrl "You sure of that?
Appologies Joel for brett hodgson's first try, and also number 13 and a bit reminiscent of Todd Flanders. Also one later in the match where I think lockers completely gets in the way of Phelps

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Quote: andyed-wiganrl "icon_biggrin.gif
Laugh all you want mate, he's no world beater and had a torrid time with us, but he's actually a reasonably handy player - and that's true of most Super League players whether we give them credit or not, you don't make a living in RL unless you can actually play.

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