It isn’t a Wigan thing in the slightest, it’s a ‘he’s done a decent job in really poor circumstances’ thing. I used to back Steve McNamara as well because he did a pretty good job as well but there are always people with the knifes out and it comes down to nothing other than club bias, with people not happy about selections, not happy that a former coach of theirs is being called out and so on.

Wane took in this job at a time the World Stopped. He has dealt with disruption after disruption and finally got in to a run of proper games In the World Cup last year. His side were absolutely superb and dismantled a Samoa team, who were tipped to beat them and then a PNG side in the Quarters, who were again tipped to cause them major bother. The semi went west (yet we still should’ve won) but all I heard Wane do was blame himself and make no excuses. He’s now come back and won his first proper series with a game to spare, minus a load of his best players and against a Tonga side people were again tipping to beat England. It just feels like he can’t win at the minute whatever happens and as I mention above, that’s been the same with other international coaches in the past.

Yes of course, don’t disagree with that at all. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be ambitious and shouldn’t give ourselves the best possible chance. It’s likely we won’t win the World Cup in our lifetimes, but that still has to be the aim. And the very minimum standards should be only getting knocked out of any tournament by Australia or New Zealand and Wane didn’t even meet that.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t hate the Wane appointment at the time and thought his passion would do us some good. I also thought he deserved a crack due to his success at Wigan. I think he’s shown he’s not got it in him. His selections are awful, his tactics are both boring and unsuccessful. People are praising him for bringing through young players but that’s nonsense, his selections have been anything but. Do you think Mikey Lewis gets a sniff of game time if Williams and Lomax are available? Ditto Ashton if Makinson didn’t pull out? Hell, if Tomkins hadn’t retired there’s a very big chance he goes with Tomkins at FB with Welsby and Williams in the halves again, and even Harry Smith wouldn’t be playing. Why hasn’t Dupree been playing? Why on Earth is he playing Chris’s Hill and the likes of Bateman and Whitehead when there’s not even a sniff of a chance they’ll be playing in the next World Cup? He needs to be getting the lads that are actually going to be around for the next tournament ready to do so, and giving them experience of playing internationally but he’s not, he’s focusing on grinding out a boring win in a friendly against a team we should be beating anyway and his selection shows that. It’s very poor

Saints fans calling Wane boring, Woolf ball was absolutely painful to watch when he won his 2 covid cups.

I also said Woolf was boring and wouldn’t want him in charge of England?

Again it’s coming down to the fact you don’t like any suggestion Wane could be out coaching Woolf or could be a better coach, so forgive people for thinking you might not be fully invested in England winning these games.

All this guff about Friendlies and Englands ‘far superior side’ is make believe to suit your narrative. Tonga isn’t a team of pub players, they’re ranked above England, they have guys like Fonua-Blake, Frizell, Koloamatangi, Olakau'atu etc who considered some of the best players in their positions in the NRL, so you’ll have to pull the other one if you think this is a nothing side Wanes England (minus a load of first choice players) are beating. Woolf really should be getting far more out of them, they were awful in the WC and have been poor again here and he has to take some responsibility for that.

Williams > Lewis (and Lomax doesnt do internationals)
Makinson > Ashton but I get the point about the next world cup

Theres a very good argument that the team would be better with Tomkins at fullback and Welsby in the halves (bar 1 pass, Welsby has hardly been a standout) but its moot as it didnt happen

With regards Dupree and the 2nd row, I agree

Honestly, I'm not arguing with the above. I'd say Wane has done alright/well enough. It's a tough gig and we struggle for coaches.

My comment however, was in response to you saying the sport was tin pot. For me Wane going tit for tat is what makes it tin pot, or contributes to it. It's like ignoring the elephant in the room Imo. Let Woolf moan, don't rise to it. F

I get that's Wane tho and I'll also admit it's what doesn't endear me to him & didn't when he was the Wigan coach. I get others won't agree and love that stuff, but it all seems a bit beneath a top coach.

I agree with all of that, but that’s what I mean about him focusing on just winning these games above all else when I don’t think that’s really the be all and end all of these series. We should be getting the next lot of lads ready to do something when it actually matters. Who really cares if we beat Tonga in a series? Like, obviously we want to win but in the big picture it doesn’t matter at all, and nobody will be remembering these games.

In a series of friendlies against second rate opposition (sorry Nicky but any international team playing Hopoate at fullback is not a serious international team. Dude is technically good but slower than Wellens at the back end of his career and runs with as much intensity as my grandad) the focus should surely be putting in an entertaining performance on free to air television and making a good impression so that anybody catching the game might stick around and preparing our team for future tournaments. Obviously play to win, but you don’t need to go as far as playing one out, negative drivel to grind out a win, picking a bunch of seniors that are close to retirement, half of which shouldn’t even be there on merit even discounting the above argument.

People will have varying opinions but as mentioned above, I think we need more of this type of stuff. The game is full of really decent people, who stick to an unwritten code of leaving things on the field but sometimes, there is nothing that promotes a game like a bit of needle between individuals. I wouldn’t want it staged or forced, like in boxing (at times) but a natural spat can set games up extremely well. If people want to speak their minds, then do it.

I wouldn’t mind it if it wasn’t so ridiculous. Like if he’d been real and said he hates Woolf and talks about how Woolf completely undermined Englands World Cup success by having Saints players not represent over his 3 years etc then it could have been a real bit of controversy and ham that could get people caring.

But what he was actually going in over was completely ridiculous. Woolf made excuses for losing. So what? Does he not watch Super League? You’ve got coaches going in on the ref, the other team etc etc every single week. Vast majority of coaches make excuses for losing. Who gives a crap? It’s hardly worth spitting your dummy out over and nor is it going to get any England fans pumped or neutrals interested

It just looks even stupider when they interview Woolf right after and he just laughs the whole thing off

I actually agree with you in regards to us using these series more as a look towards the future. I would’ve done that but I think a few absences (Farnworth, Williams, Walmsley, Lomax, KPP, Wardle, Percival) has left Wane wanting to make sure there was some experience in the squad. Take out Hill, Whitehead, Makinson etc and you’re suddenly very thin on the ground in terms of experience. It again comes back to being damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If he goes with a squad full of inexperienced players and loses, he gets absolutely battered.

I’m sure he would love to and he’d be 100% correct but it’s tough to do that when he has Saints players in his squad. Not only would he be calling out Woolf but he would be asking questions of mates of Welsby, Makinson, Lees etc (the lads who do turn up). I think what you say above has played a large part in Wane being so public about Woolf’s recent comments.

And yet it's garnered multiple posts from your good self. Go figure!

I'm sorry, I'm not defending Wane as international coach per se and I agree with much you're saying, particularly regarding picking players with no chance of being around come the next world cup. I said exactly the same earlier on this board. But by God you're contradictory.

You say you want entertaining rugby as we should be attracting new fans and not concerning ourselves with winning a meaningless series yet, at the same time we should be preparing to succeed at the next tournament. When exactly would we prepare for this next tournament if we're using these friendlies as an advertising exercise?

You say that Wane isn't the man to win us a tournament during a series he's actually winning! Moreover, he's making it clear that he's fostering a winning mentality above all else. Would you prefer we pratt about throwing the ball around so that the odd neutral might take an interest and then, suddenly out of nowhere, breed a winning mentality only when the next 'important' (as defined by you) games come along? I can assure you of one thing if nothing else; unlike yourself, Wane doesn't see these games as meaningless.

It seems to me you're complaining for complaining's sake and no matter what he does you'd find fault. Answer me this one question: Had we thrown the ball around in atrocious conditions the other day and got absolutely tonked could you, hand on heart, tell me that you wouldn't have been using that as a narrative to show how Wane's coaching is too naive to win a tournament against the Aussies?

From our friends over at Redvee. Enjoy!

Pull your head out of your pompous backside for 5 minutes. England V Tonga means absolutely sweet FA. You may be in the minority who cares, most people don't. I've watched both games because my lad wanted to, I'd have taken him to the games if he'd wanted to go, the fact he didn't and only missed one Saints home game through illness all season speaks volumes. Maybe it's me (and I hope it is) rubbing off on him but I have no wish to support Wigan and Warrington players, nor do I want to lend support to the RFL who've done their best to •••• us over all season, nor do I want to support that fat ape who's sent his players out to deliberately injure our players in the past. Club before country every single time. I'd honestly be happy if we didn't have anyone playing in a friendly series against second rate, NRL headhunters and a player who's stole a living from us for 2 years or however long he's been here. Why should anyone from Saints support the international game when the game gives us nothing? Infact, they actively tries to hamper us. If I was Morgan Knowles, I'd be on a beach in Tonga with my feet up wearing a Konrad Hurrell wig, not getting flogged by that fat Wigan prick and sending a message to RFL.

Well that was classy!