| FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Potential trouble for Saints and Walmsley |
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| Quote: Stu M "Doesn't matter. There was an enforced break during the season (unlike any other in the history of the Sport) players missing through Covid, no crowds. It was an extraordinary season.'"
They'd practically already won it before the break  |
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| Quote: Egg Chasing "They'd practically already won it before the break ![]()
Wasn't the break the same for everyone anyway? I'm not sure how that makes it an uneven comp. Only if Liverpool got a break and others didn't would it be equivalent.
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Didn't Wigan win it seven times in a row or was it only six. ![]()
I know you know Rogues but for those that don't recall it was seven times in a row. However, that also included four doubles, two trebles (WCC). Oh and I have not added three years we won the Premiership (1992, 1994 1nd 1995) and the Lancashire Cup 1993. I remember all the loving and respect from opposition fans do you?
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| Quote: Sweaty Betty's "I know you know Rogues but for those that don't recall it was seven times in a row. However, that also included four doubles, two trebles (WCC). Oh and I have not added three years we won the Premiership (1992, 1994 1nd 1995) and the Lancashire Cup 1993. I remember all the loving and respect from opposition fans do you?'"
It's this from Stu, who to be fair is generally a good poster, that makes me laugh. He's here saying they don't get the credit they deserve but thinks nothing of posting:
What about when Wigan dominated all those years? They were the only full time team then so hardly a fair competition. Now that the playing field is level, they haven't dominated in the same way.
In other words "it's an unfair comp when Wigan take an advantage but a level playing field when Saints do".
They can't have it both ways. |
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| Quote: Phuzzy "It's this from Stu, who to be fair is generally a good poster, that makes me laugh. He's here saying they don't get the credit they deserve but thinks nothing of posting
So what advantage do we have in a salary capped sport?
My point about Wigan was that they were the only full time club in the game (maybe Leeds were as well if I recall) playing against part-time players who trained twice a week whilst working full-time.
Quite a big advantage I'd say. Not to mention the cash to pay record fees for the likes of Offiah at the time.
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Keep goin wit yed down:29146.gif |
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| Quote: Stu M "So what advantage do we have in a salary capped sport?
My point about Wigan was that they were the only full time club in the game (maybe Leeds were as well if I recall) playing against part-time players who trained twice a week whilst working full-time.
Quite a big advantage I'd say. Not to mention the cash to pay record fees for the likes of Offiah at the time.'"
Leeds were the first team to go full time followed by Wigan and Widnes. Saints weren't officialy full time but didn't have many players with jobs, certainly the Aussies and Kiwis didn't. like someone posted earlier we had won plenty before then. |
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| Quote: Stu M "So what advantage do we have in a salary capped sport?
My point about Wigan was that they were the only full time club in the game (maybe Leeds were as well if I recall) playing against part-time players who trained twice a week whilst working full-time.
Quite a big advantage I'd say. Not to mention the cash to pay record fees for the likes of Offiah at the time.'"
You didn't even play the same number of games! Exactly how much of an advantage do you want before you recognise it as an advantage? |
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And, just for the record Stu, what advantage did Wigan have that was denied to Saints? They could have gone fully professional too if they'd wanted. Other teams did.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "You didn't even play the same number of games! Exactly how much of an advantage do you want before you recognise it as an advantage?'"
Sorry, which of our 3 consecutive GF winning years are you referring to?  |
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| Quote: Phuzzy "And, just for the record Stu, what advantage did Wigan have that was denied to Saints? They could have gone fully professional too if they'd wanted. Other teams did.'"
Correct. However that doesn't mean everyone could afford to. Theoretically every SL team can spend the same salary cap but not every team spends up to the maximum. |
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| Quote: Stu M "I'm not talking about Sky, I'm talking about fans of other clubs.
Players are bigger, faster and stronger than ever before and defences are harder to break down yet all of a sudden it's a poor comp. Suddenly when Saints are winning- its a poor comp. Funny that.
We've had luck in finals- so what, it won't say that in the history books will it. What about when Wellens got injured during the 2011 GF and Shenton had to go FB. We were beating Leeds up to that point and they scored to win it down the side where Shenton had been defending, was that not bad luck for Saints?
As I say it riles me that we don't get the credit we deserve. Now we are only a one man team with Walmsley, however if I'm honest I think losing Lomax would have a much bigger impact than losing Walmsely. We didn't lose to Toulouse because Walmsley was missing.'"
utter myth |
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| Quote: Egg Chasing "Some clubs don't have the luxury of resting players with niggles because when you're already missing 6, 7 or 8 players and playing players out of position you can't make many more changes.'"
Think your missing the point, unless you start the season with 6,7, or 8 players missing. With good conditioning and resting a player/players with niggles, you wouldn't end up with that many injured. Unless your very unlucky, or have a pack that is getting battered every week. In which case it's down to poor recruitment. Using Warrington as an example, pretty good backs but a lightweight pack. I'm convinced several have been playing injured, probably trying to stem a run of poor performances. Trouble is it tends to more long term absence. |
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| Quote: RogerMoore "Looking at the way Woolfe, and to a certain extent Holbrook, manage their injuries, it is probably part of the reason why they haven't had any injury crisis in the last few years. Any time there is what is perceived as a weak fixture, players are missing. Injured say Saints, rested says everybody else. In truth it is probably players with niggles etc that are rested. That way niggles don't become injuries. Perhaps other clubs should learn. Losing a couple of times to the likes of London, did little to affect the outcome of the Grand Final.'"
or he just played the covid card...again |
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| Quote: Stu M "Correct. However that doesn't mean everyone could afford to. Theoretically every SL team can spend the same salary cap but not every team spends up to the maximum.'"
Are you saying St Helens couldn't afford to? So when did you go professional and how come you could afford to then? Secondly how could you afford to pay Australian players top dollar but couldn't afford to put a few part timers on full time pay? Lastly how could Leeds, Wigan and Widnes afford it but the mighty Saints couldn't? |
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| Quote: Stu M "I'll tell you one thing- we get very little credit for what we have done these past few years. Morgan Knowles alluded to it on the OOYL podcast where he said it frustrates him. In a salary capped sport, to win it 3 times in a row is an unbelievable effort (not to mention we also won the CC last year)
I guarantee that Wigan fans weren't saying it was a poor comp when Leeds won it 3 in a row from 07-09, suddenly Saints are the dominant team and the league is a poor standard.
What about when Wigan dominated all those years? They were the only full time team then so hardly a fair competition. Now that the playing field is level, they haven't dominated in the same way.
Saints win the Final last year and it's "they only just beat Catalan" sorry but are Grand Finals not meant to be closely fought? We won the LLS by a record margin in 2019- comments of "it's a poor league".
Our consistency over the past few years has been up there with any other. The amount of times we have won the LLS is testament to that.
My final point on injuries too, the way Wigan fans talk we get literally zero. Yes we may not get 7 at a time but we have had injuries. Lees has had two relatively long term ones, Knowles missed quite a few last year, Fages was gone for the season after the CC and we lost Bentley from August for the season. Percival has also missed a lot of games the past 3 seasons.
We played a full season without Walmsley in 2018 and were 80 mins away from the GF when only poor tactics from Holbrook saw us lose to Warrington.
We really don't get the credit we deserve. I don't know any Saints fan personally that says we are the greatest team in History but if we look at the SL era from 96, you'd have to say that this current team are up there as only Leeds have done what we have done in the 26 years since SL.
The salary cap makes it a relatively level playing field so any dominant team deserves full credit for that.'"
Wigan went pro in 94 so your theory that we won because we was professional flies out the window some what.
I think Stains spent a fortune on Newlove,Oconner,Vautin, etc.Rugby League is over a century old (it didnt start 26 yrs ago) |
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