Both were with an open hand too, I'd expect a warning letter for both and that will be the end of it.

Get em up n down Rivington Then a laps round the plantations

Would there be any mileage in playing Tommy at hooker, a position in which he has excelled, bringing Sam up to partner George and using one of our many wingers at the back?

In the short term it's something to consider but longer term we still need a kicking half for me. The lack of pace Sam is showing is quite staggering. I'm not joking here when I say he looks probably slower then Wellens at the back end of his career. Hopefully it's a case of getting up to speed rather then all that pace has gone for good (we clearly know he's not the whippet he was at 21). Other then that pace there isn't a great deal wrong with his game but it's such a huge part of him.

Sorry Nicky but he's not doing enough for me. I can't stand seeing him at acting half back, simply handing the ball on. I've defended him recently but, if I'm honest, I think I was trying to convince myself to some extent. I'm not expecting the "whippet" to return but he's just not going for it IMO. Just because you lack pace doesn't mean you can't make a break. Tommy Martin, Lee Briers and even Andy Gregory did it on a regular basis and they weren't quick.

You can tell Wigan are a team coached by a prop forward. Absolutely clueless.

I am just hoping that he is just nursing his injury through to the CCSF but I'm not going to hold my breath. I'd love him to be even 50% of the player he was.
Personally I would put him in the halves now and give young Davies a dig at FB. It can't be any worse than the present set up.
I just wish he'd stop all the whinging and get on with playing.

He certainly needs to start taking the line on more but even when he does, the pace just isn't there to get him through the gaps. There's numerous players who made breaks without much pace but Sam has never had to be one of those until now. He looks very tentative and we can only hope that side of his game comes on. If it doesn't then we're left with a player on huge money who simply isn't worth it. The rest of his game is good enough. His rugby brain is good, he was buying other players space (until last night) and he's been good defensively. He's a good organiser and a good passer but ultimately for the money him and Leuluai must be on combined we could probably put a tempting offer together for one of the worlds best halves!! (Not that they'd come).

Our recruitment strategy of bringing back all of our old boys isn't going very well and it's something they probably need to look at going forward.

Whether it's through injuries to key players, loss of form, lack of decent signings or lack of fresh ideas in the coaching department, I'd say the club looks at risk of stagnating.

Quite a few of our important players just haven't delivered this year, or having played to a level that you would expect from their status in the squad. Players like Sam Tomkins, Gelling, Leuluai, McIlorum, Tautai, Joel Tomkins, Powell, Isa, Sutton, FPN. Yes, a few of those have struggled with injury but sometimes you've got to make difficult decisions. Gelling I think is just unfortunate, but Joel Tomkins has been plagued with injuries, hasn't played particularly well since returning and is given a new contract! But Lenagan and Wane like him so of course he was brought back and of course they'll give him new contracts.

The policy of re-signing players who have left (Mossop, Sam, Joel, Burgess, Leuluai) has so far been a complete failure with none getting close to their old form. Think of some of the top signings we've missed out on to bring them back. 0 out of 5 seems a pretty bad return for Ian Lenagan's favourite policy.

People said Marshall hardly git a pass, but let's not forget he got a few hospital passes from ST in his own 20!
I felt for hm, actually, I thought he was one of our less bad performers. Watching experienced pros chucking the ball around like headless chickens in the last quarter, all too often into the hands of an opponent, was deeply depressing.

IL has been a great Chairman, transformed the club when he came in.

BUT, he has given Wane too much power, and we are now seeing the results of that.

Re-signing old boys that simply are not good enough, but because they're from Wigan and were at Wigan before they moved to more supposed lucrative deals, they are re-signed.

Turned the club back to the Noble mentality, and it's there to see every game..

Jobs for the boys big time

I agree with a lot of that but I'd leave Sutton out of it. He's been head and shoulders our best prop imo and is coming along nicely.

We need a change in mentality. We seem to be stuck in a mindset that we can just turn up for the last third of the year but we're not going to do a 2016 every year. I've made every excuse under the sun for the defeats this year and of course the injuries took a toll but since the Saints away game I think the players have been guilty of turning it in a little. They gave everything in that game and it seemed to be their last stand yet we lost a game we should've won and since the attitude has been soft. The defeats at Hull and Leigh were shambolic playing against sides with as many players missing as us and since that we were fortunate at times to get some wins. We begged Wire to beat us in the cup, we were so uninterested in the first 25 mins at Huddersfield it was embarrassing (in what I felt was our biggest league game of the year), we went to sleep against Widnes, we took 65 mins to put a decimated Catalans to bed and then came last night!

I still believe we're only a bit of tinkering away from being right in the mix for the lot next year but the attitude needs to change. We need a half with a kicking game, a prop with some go forward and more off the ball work in attack. I remember the early days of Maguire and even in Wanes first couple of years in charge and the movement around the ball was tough to keep up with. At the minute it's just side to side with no runners and no plans.

Pushed Sam Powell out of the way to play dummy half till SP told him to do one . Well done Mr Powell.

Regards , EW