I think some of it may be that Wane has gone from being surrounded in the gantry by the likes of Harris and Deacon to just having a bloke who's never played the game and Jon Winder.

Initially I think we played better rugby under Wane than Madge, I like the aggression in our defence but that is all, what we need is to appoint 1 maybe 2 assistant coaches, someone along the line of Adrian Lam, Trent Barrett or Brett Kimmorley (basically an experienced half who's been there and got the t shirt) or you could look at the British contingent of Kevin Sinfield, Tommy Martyn (great rugby brain), Danny Orr etc

My choice would be Adrian Lam all day, I think Williams as Smith would come on tenfold.

Wane wanted all ego's out as there is only room enough for his.

Look closely, all the Aussies who probably had a lot to say and anyone in the coaching staff with clout have slowly gone.

Now King Wane has his castle with only young lads and the favourites to rule over.

That wouldn't be far off the mark, I could see that going on as I've been in that situation myself and been forced out of a job.

Agree 100%. As we've lost coaching influences we've got progressively worse. It's time to bring onboard a backs coach, fresh ideas needed ASAP!

Yeah that sums it up, Ever since Deacon and Harris have left we've got worse, there's no dummy runners to our set plays, so in effect we're just passing it along the line which isn't going to break down an under 10s team never mind someone like Hull or Warrington. The main problem this season stems from Powell though, he always just grabs the ball and passes stood still, he never makes a dash from dummy half or even runs and then passes like Macca does, he just stands still and passes, them passes are normally too high or too soft, Crosby Mossop and J.Tomkins needs to go imo, Mossop couldn't break down a straw door, And all Joel does is give penalties away, if we want to challenge for anything this year we'll have to change something massively, and that change rests on Wane I think, he's had his time and it time for him to go

Powell lacks the most basic skill that a hooked needs, quick ball. I worked with some great coaches who talked about how you get the ball away quick, I've watched Powell and he doesn't do anything to get the team an extra yard with quick ball from dummy half, then you consider he has no running game, so apart from tackling he offers very little.

Just in from watching Wakefield beat Wire. What a contrast to us the Trinity side are. Chester has clearly given them the freedom to play open attacking rugby without the rigidity of over structured plays.

Atmosphere at Belle Vue at the moment is electric, supporters coming back to the club and it is all off the back of dynamic attacking rugby the team are being allowed to play by the coach causing them to pick up the results. It really is great to watch and a total contrast to the tripe we are having to watch.

If only we had a coach with a similar ideology. You need to have faith in your players and allow them to express themselves and clearly that is not the case at Wigan.

What I find a bit hard to buy about this "Wane is the big martinet who forces the players to play a structured game" argument is that it hardly seems realistic to me that the senior players just swallow this without a word. Surely Lockers, Matty Smith, and Jeez, Sam Tomkins, can clearly see that something is radically wrong? I find it hard to credit that they have no input.

The mystery is that if they do have any input, we're not seeing it.

That's why I have called them characterless in previous posts because they haven't got the nuts to say enough is enough.
Senior players have done this before when they knew that the tactics were wrong and they basically just ignored Dorahy the then first team coach. The quality of the half backs then though are a million miles away though from where we are today because they knew how to run a game our halfs do it numbers rather than by instinct and the numbers they use are given to them because they can't do their own.
The other potential problem with this is that some of the players don't know to play any other way and our forwards are soft and for me just not fit or fit for purpose.
This I think also happened at Hull this season.

Unfortunately, the players you mention are, IMO, part of the problem. Being brutal, Lockers time is up. He must take up a big chunk of the cap, but his injuries are taking their toll and we're not getting much value out of him at the moment, if any.

Matty Smith is one of the most average half-backs to ever wear the Wigan jersey.

Sam Tomkins is being painted as our saviour, but truth is, we've basically put all our eggs in one basket with him.

Add this to one of the softest packs, with the least amount of skill in the comp (apart from Bateman) and you've got a team that struggles to do anything right.

Oh, and our recruitment has been nothing short of shocking the last few years, and I include Flower, Clubb, Mossop and Joel T in that.

Unfortunately for SW the days of ranting and raving are gone in sports coaching, when the team aren't performing he has generally employed this tactic, Sky will often flick to the half time team talk in the dressing sheds and the silver back will be frothing at the mouth. You look at some of the other coaches in recent times and they are quite tactical i.e. Tony Smith, Brian McDermott, Mag McGuire. Albeit Mag did blow up from time to time and McDermott enjoys a sulk...especially when he has been beaten in his TV interviews, but their records speak for themselves.

SW is on borrowed time and I would fully back seeing a new coach at DW in 2017, we have lost two consecutive GF's which IMO we should have won, it hurts, and quite frankly he needs to start producing results as the team are going backwards. Having watched the games at home to Huddersfield and Hull we looked 'clunky' in attack - players running terrible lines, poor handling, halves not combining well. I don't really have a lot of confidence in Sam Powell at 9 or Matty Smith at 7 and IL has failed to step up and sign a decent 6, in fairness to Sam Powell he has had to step in to replace MM and there in lies the problem we need to guidance and leadership around the ruck and in the middle of the park. The defence looks paper thin...the aging Gareth Ellis in his twilight years carved us up the middle on Friday, say no more.

Whilst Hull FC are a different prospect this year and look injury free and balanced for once, I'm not entirely convinced they are the Brisbane Broncos and will be making a name for themselves come the playoffs. With all the stink happening around Saints, KC and their performances please consider they are 4th and we are 5th?!!

So whilst I have pointed the finger and had a whinge what are the solutions...obviously injuries haven't helped SW but he needs to stop tinkering with the team and find some sort of settled line up. With ST back he can put Sarginson back in his proper position in the centre (considering he doesn't play like he did on Friday again), Bateman is our best forward and needs to play in the 2nd row. Crosby was poor on Friday and needs to give way to Flower when he is fit with Liam Farrell coming back in when he is ready. Unfortunately the 6, 7, 9 conundrum is a difficult one and given his time again I think SW would have retained Logan Tomkins but hindsight is a wonderful thing...if Tommy Leauluai became available then Wigan need to snap him up as he changed the game when RTS was injured against The Dogs a few weeks ago...the reality is that this would not happen until 2017 if it did.

All in all I think SW has gone as far as he can go, I hope I am wrong and then we do the double...but I can't see it at all as ranting and raving is all he has I feel, lets see.

After the Hull second try SOL stood at the side of the posts hand on hip and wind blowing out of his backside. What he should of been doing was knocking heads together and demanding some energy and commitment from his players but NOTHING!!!!

Said it all along he has been a great player , a great club captain , but never in in a million years an on field TEAM captain.

Regards , EW

I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, what he needs is support IMO.

Also I think Clubb and Flower have been good signings, I like their commitment especially Clubbs Impact off the bench, yes he gives away the odd penalty but his aggression in defence is great.

The problem I think is with Joel and Mossop, they really need to pull their fingers out or I'd be looking to get rid. If they weren't Wigan lads I think they'd have already left or not come back.

With regards to O'Loughlin I think if he only played a handful of games a year he'd be worth it on the salary cap, the guy is a superstar and without him we are screwed. I'm trying to savour every minute of him playing because I do t look forward to him retiring.

All in all we need to either let the players have freedom in attack or bring in an assistant who can organise our attack.

Lockers is only on 100k max because of the homegrown/testimonial rule.

He struggled big time on Friday Lockers and whisper it quietly but he has done for a little while now in a Wigan shirt. He seems to be struggling to get any intensity in his play on a week by week basis. If you compare what he's produced for us over the past season and a bit to what he did for England against the Kiwis its chalk and cheese. Maybe his body just hasn't got what it takes to raise to those levels week to week but after a small lay off and a game to tune up at Dewsbury I'd have expected more.

I said in another thread he's one of our three most important players and he's our captain so we need him to try and raise himself to help pull us in to a bit of form. When we've got a fully fit squad you would imagine they'll look to manage his workload.