FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Positives/negatives |
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icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg Officially RLFAN's most Doe-eyed Happy Clapper.
Big Steve wrote:
The Internet has provided some wonderful creativity, opportunities and knowledge sharing but it has also given a worldwide forum for people you would leave a full pint behind in the pub to avoid having to listen to them.
aboveusonlypie...
If you don't bother to go to the game when you live in the locality then you are not really a fan and therefore your views are invalid. It's simple.:icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Lingfield Warrior "As to Wane, there are 2 sides to the game. It bears repeating the obvious, but if you score more than the opposition you win. Brisbane scored only 1 try of their own making. That is a superb effort. It is possible that the effort in defence detracted from the attack. But, Wane clearly knows how to coach defence.
In attack, we have a method which depends heavily on Lockers' ability to tie up the middle of the opposition defence. When he plays well, we are the best team in SL. What has taken too long is a structure that works in Lockers' inevitible absences. Maybe over the next few weeks we will see Bateman take on that role. I think he can do, and signing him was a superb bit of recruitment.
Finally, it is crystal clear that we are having to make do, as is the whole competition, with the limited resources at our disposal. It is some achievement to put together a team drawing so heavily on such a small area, which can go toe to toe with Brisbane, with their infinite resources.
Now, everything that anybody has ever done could have been done better, but I think in this instance we can be justifiably proud of our lads who did themselves and the competition proud. Wane has made plenty of mistakes, but he did a good job last week.'"
Neat post, with a little nugget in the middle.... This is key...
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| Quote: Wigan Peer "Neat post, with a little nugget in the middle.... This is key...'" (Finally, it is crystal clear that we are having to make do, as is the whole competition, with the limited resources at our disposal.)
What worries me is that IL, at the fans forum, clearly stated that the Salary Cap isn't a problem.
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73327_1685730441.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73327.jpg |
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| But surely it's right that *just* increasing the SC is no panacea? It doesn't make existing English players any better. It *might* discourage a few from leaving the comp, but surely the main issue is, many SL clubs wouldn't have the income to use all of an increased SC. The only thing that will improve players is playing regularly against better opposition.
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| An increase in salary cap certainly doesn't make exisiting players better but it could well lead us to getting a better calibre of recruit at lower ages if they can see that very good money is available to those who make the first team on a regular basis.
At the moment I'm not convinced of that.
IL has always suggested an increase in the SC in line with inflation.
If that had been in place from the start of the SC then we would be heading for a figure far larger than we have now.
The NRL has a far larger talent pool than us and a far larger salary cap.
With IL/Rads/SW eyeing London and the talent pool down there they maybe going someway to enlarge our scope for recruitment.
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
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| Quote: moto748 "But surely it's right that *just* increasing the SC is no panacea? It doesn't make existing English players any better. It *might* discourage a few from leaving the comp, but surely the main issue is, many SL clubs wouldn't have the income to use all of an increased SC. The only thing that will improve players is playing regularly against better opposition.'"
How many potential players of all ages don't even look at RL because of the low pay? We have no idea how many potential players just don't pursue a career in RL as they can earn more in a regular career outside the game. Then we have players like Owen Farrell and George Ford in Union who might fancy a crack at the game one day probably never will as they would take a massive pay cut. The poor pay relative to other sports must be a disincentive to players of all ages.
As to many SL clubs not having the income to pay to a higher cap, they would have has if the RFL had the brains to put the TV contract out to tender or even not having done so accepted the Sky money should go to the SL teams only. Even with the current new deal that would have doubled the salary cap to £3.6m fully finding the clubs. Instead they have kept it at £1.8m with (all SL clubs fully funded) in order to adopt this "whole game approach".
It's stupid because there just isn't enough money for a twenty odd team pro game as we see given half the teams are still effectively semi pro still paying to a lower cap.
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| Quote: moto748 "But surely it's right that *just* increasing the SC is no panacea? It doesn't make existing English players any better. It *might* discourage a few from leaving the comp, but surely the main issue is, many SL clubs wouldn't have the income to use all of an increased SC. The only thing that will improve players is playing regularly against better opposition.'"
There are lots of ways you could improve the situation without raising the cap willy-nilly. You could introduce significantly bigger discounts on home-grown talent than there are now. You could also look at marquee player discounts and even Club England type top-up payments.
I don't think even these adjustments would be a full solution, but to simply do nothing in response to this crisis is ludicrous. (I agree about playing better opposition more regularly, but there's a touch of irony in that Saints played a team who trashed them last weekend, and two of the best British forwards around were in the opposition).
Years ago I was accused of scaremongering when I said I feared our game would decline if we just accepted the cap was here to stay forever and that it would never be changed. Okay, British RL still has its professional tier, but a lot of our best players are no longer in it. As someone else said, it's now a case of 'when' our best new players will leave and not 'if'. And, if Joe Burgess is anything to go by, the age is coming down rapidly. How long will we have had him for - two seasons (one of which, judging by this one so far, he's doing a Brian Carney with his head elsewhere).
Is it still possible for the cap to be challenged legally? If so, I wonder how long before that happens. Because it may be the only outcome, and I doubt any of us really want that.
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| I find myself agreeing with DaveO, which is unusual, to say the least. Increasing the cap without a corresponding increase in income is folly. The problem is not the cap but the fact that the sport as a whole simply does not bring in enough money, whether that's TV income, other sponsorship, or gate money.
On TV sports viewing figures (at club level, at least; internationals are another matter), we are second only to football,. but that is not reflected in TV income.
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icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg Officially RLFAN's most Doe-eyed Happy Clapper.
Big Steve wrote:
The Internet has provided some wonderful creativity, opportunities and knowledge sharing but it has also given a worldwide forum for people you would leave a full pint behind in the pub to avoid having to listen to them.
aboveusonlypie...
If you don't bother to go to the game when you live in the locality then you are not really a fan and therefore your views are invalid. It's simple.:icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg |
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| DaveO is spot on...
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Quote: Geoff "I find myself agreeing with DaveO, which is unusual, to say the least. Increasing the cap without a corresponding increase in income is folly. The problem is not the cap but the fact that the sport as a whole simply does not bring in enough money, whether that's TV income, other sponsorship, or gate money.
On TV sports viewing figures (at club level, at least; internationals are another matter), we are second only to football,. but that is not reflected in TV income.'"
Do you have any figures to back that assertion up Geoff?
I'd like to think you are right but am a little sceptical.
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "Do you have any figures to back that assertion up Geoff?
I'd like to think you are right but am a little sceptical.'"
The figures are a little hard to find, but this article from last year is fairly typicalhttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/may/08/rugby-league-union-tvrl
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Quote: Geoff "The figures are a little hard to find, but this article from last year is fairly typicalhttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/may/08/rugby-league-union-tvrl'"
Cheers, I had a little search myself but it is hard to find any figures for Sky. It does seem that International Sport gets the highest viewing figures (Cricket, Union) whilst Darts is incredibly popular. But in a straight fight between club Rugby Union and League, League wins hands down.
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| We really need to go back to Sky and look to renegotiate the deal that was agreed.
Not sure what the viewing figures were for the wcc but if they were a success then this is something that we need to try and take advantage of.
I've come to the conclusion that unless Sky stump up more then within the next couple of years there may not be a SL competition worth televising. They will know this we just need the balls to restart discussions on longer funding. Let's give Sky the Challenge Cup or even jettison that competition to give Sky exclusivity for screening RL but for considerably more funding. Let's at least try and think out of the proverbial box.
The problem for me is that we have no one within the RL or SL who has sufficient vision or energy to drag the game forward. Who is they guy we brought in as chairman. I can't even remember his name let alone what he stands for and how he plans to address the perennial issues of lack of funding and a non existent international game.
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| Quote: Ziggy Stardust "Positives>>
Bateman
Negs>>
Joel is a ebag and will never ever be Wigan captain (unless SW is still coach)
Burgess can't catch
M Smith is crap
We have no forwards that Scare the opposition
Our coach is an idiot
Our chairman is a penny pincher'"
Knee Jerk
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
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| Quote: Itchy Arsenal "We really need to go back to Sky and look to renegotiate the deal that was agreed.
Not sure what the viewing figures were for the wcc but if they were a success then this is something that we need to try and take advantage of.'"
Not going to happen. I'd like to think Sky might realise to keep the quality of their second highest watched club sport they need to fund it better but I can't see it.
Quote: Itchy Arsenal "The problem for me is that we have no one within the RL or SL who has sufficient vision or energy to drag the game forward. Who is they guy we brought in as chairman. I can't even remember his name let alone what he stands for and how he plans to address the perennial issues of lack of funding and a non existent international game.'"
I think you are right. What we need is someone who could go the to likes of BT Sport and say "you give me a shed load of cash and I will give you an NRL-like competition". Instead we have the Fat Controller who was instrumental in locking us to Sky for what is it, five years?
The RFL needs a clear out. Most major organisations move CEO's and what not on after a relatively short period to reinvigorate things. The RFL certainly needs that.
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Positive from last night. Two things.
John Bateman running down and tackling a Cas player who had made a break in the last five
Then exorting his teammates to form a scrum around him with two minutes to go.
Great attitude from our standout player in an otherwise miserable performance.
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