Interesting point and I didn't realise that was the case. Im not familiar with the younger players at Saints but you can definatley see how Wane has given our younger players a chance and how they now look comfortable taking their place in the team.

Surely Hohaia would be a better option than Flanagan?

There have been so many "upsets" this season that I don't think anyone is taking this game for granted, least of all Waney and the boys. While some of the upsets can perhaps be put down to the favourites taking things easy in the regular season, that can't be said to apply in the CC and the playoff games, where we've seen a lot of underdogs go on to beat more fancied opposition.

Having said that...Wigan by 12

Hohaia is playing at 6 and whilst Flanagan is being named at 7, it's Jordan Turner who has been playing that role really, despite being on the team sheet at 13.

Flanagan is playing some sort of hybrid half-back/old-fashioned loose forward role on our left-hand side.

I am! This is a final, this is Wigan v St Helens! I have seen much bigger upsets in my time, including results in this seasons play-offs. Lest we forget, Wigan were rank underdogs at Murryfield in 2002 and look what happened. I expect this to be a close game.

Just hope Shaun Wane puts up a picture of Mark Aston lifting the Challenge Cup at Wembley....................upsets do happen.......the bookies had them at 6-1 in a 2 horse race.............

I actually think Saints winning on Saturday could be a bigger upset than Wigan winning the cup in 2002. Wigan had a very decent pack in 2002 which included the likes of Terry O' Connor, Craig Smith, Dave Furner and Terry Newton. In addition Adrian Lam and Jules O'Neil was not a bad half-back combination and whilst the current Saints pack is also solid Im not convinced they have enough at 6 & 7 to upset Wigan.

I think a rainy night will help Saints but I just can't see anything other than a Wigan win by at least 12 points.

I think that's about right. A close loss (less than 10-12) would represent a creditable effort IMO. I know people will say we're just making excuses early, but that's genuinely how I see it.

People are talking about Wigans Grand Final experience. By my reckoning there will be nine players missing who played in last years Grand Final, that's quite a change in personnel.

You can't be an "ape" and pull something like that off...

Only 4 of them left though.

Of the rest, only Thornley is injured.
Goulding, Dudson, Hughes and Taylor not picked/out of form/poor seasons.

Quite, talk about a misleading stat.

Who are the ones that left? Tomkins (replaced by an experienced NRL legend), Richards (replaced by Burgess who imo is better and one of the best wingers in the sport), hansen (replaced by Joel tomkins who is better), who's the other?

Lee Mossop

There's glimmers of hope for us and the fact its a final and a derby can lead to a "anything can happen on the day". However, I don't think its going to happen for us, I'd probably say I rate chances as 75% Wigan to 25% Saints in my mind.
What I really fear is us doing something silly/rubbish early on whilst you start like a rocket, then see you sit on the lead with a superior kicking game.