I’m not trying to stick up for Hock, I just found it poor how people were passing comment last night and this morning without knowing the full facts. Now we know he and quite a few others went out for food and drinks after a disappointing loss to Italy despite the squad being on a drinking ban until after the Australia game. He also admitted he overslept and missed a 10 minute warm down and medical.

For me all those who were drinking whether it was one, two, three or ten should be punished, whether that be a small fine, a written warning etc. We don’t know if this has happened and this is where England have let themselves down with reporting and identifying only Gareth Hock. Obviously it appears Hock is the only one who missed the morning warm down due to oversleeping (was this because of a hangover or was it just a total accident – I have over slept for work a few times before) and so should be punished more harshly than the others. Whether that punishment should be permanent removal from the squad I don’t know.

It seems to me like the whole thing has been blown out of proportion and handled badly by England. I remember David Warner doing something much worse than this before the summers Ashes with England, infact he punched an opposition player in a nightclub during a drunken night out and he was sent over to Zimbabwe to play for Australia’s A team. There was no knee jerk reactions and removals from the squad or disruptive press releases and it was all dealt with relatively swiftly professionally. He was even called back to take part in the final two tests if I remember correctly.

Not much

(1) we got rid of him because he was a liability & a disruption to the squad in general
(2) there appear to be several breaches whilst on England duty (suspect shenanigans in SA ?)
& thus (3) hung-over & AWOL was the last straw
Not forgetting (4) he's hiding behind the RFL statement that the initial release would be the one & only & crying into his pint, hoping to get sympathy.

However, (5) no news is bad news - might just make a few of the ambulance chasers watch on Saturday & who knows, we might actually perform

Would this have happened with the Wigan team in the week leading up to the Grand Final or Challenge Cup Final (should there have been a similar no-alcohol ruling)?

1 - You have to look at the Coaching/Management Team and the disciplines & controls they set out to the squad on the evening of the Italy game....."Listen guy's you know the rules, no ale tonight".

2 - Understand what respect (if any) the players have for said Coaching/Management Team.

David Warner was a massive key to the success of Australlia. They banned him right up until the start of the Ashes. A sort of win-win situation.

Yes Gareth Hock is a key part of the England side when on form but is also a major liability too. I imagine he has more blotches on his copy sheet than going out and missing traning.

There is the chance of course that those who went out have got away with it because they turned up for training whereas Gareth couldn't be bothered. It was probably the fault of IFL and SW.

Agree 100%
There does appear to be a cohort that think they're above anything the management team want or ask them to do. We don't know who the ring-leaders are (were), but this should be a wake-up to the rest of the drinking party (esp if they're not even in the 17 at the weekend - or on the bench for 78 minutes).
McN was the best/only one available of a rubbish pool at the time, but he's all we've got for the next few weeks & I [ido[/i believe we should be getting behind the whole squad & not engaging in collective omphaloskepsis (look it up).

Glass half full.

Your dediction to defending him is a credit to you.

You do however now appear like someone argueing Harold Shipman was a good GP.

You believe Hock was kicked out the squad for turning up 10 minutes late. Ok. I've got some magic beans if you want some?

If that is the case (I don't know the reason but doubt the reported reason) he's been picked for an England world cup squad and decides he'll get drunk and then not turn up on time for training. Some people have dreamt of that opportunity (including lots of his more deserving fellow pros) and he can't get out of bed.

F**k him he's an idiot and McNamaras a bigger idiot for trusting him.

Like someone else posted what a rat......'they did it too' 'it wasn't me' Jammer made me etc etc.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Enjoy him at salford. If he doesn't respect the national team or Wigan imagine what high regard he'll hold Salford in and how he'll go the extra mile for them?

i still can't believe people are moaning about McManara and sticking up for hock, not sure what else hock has to do for people to give up on him. A week before playing arguably the most important game of his career and he goes out drinking!! why didn't he stop and think hold on a min i better be in top shape for next week?? because he doesn't take rugby serious and thats the be all and end all!!

how do you know nobody else hasn't been fined? or punished? nobody else didn't show up for training (be it a medical or 2 fitness) why hasn't that clicked into his head?

Press reports seem to say he didn't turn up at the training camp on Monday night. This seems to indicate that this is in addition to missing the morning swim. And probably was the final straw.

I'll reiterate, I'm not defending Gareth Hock. I don't know the lad, have never met him and have no allegiance whatsoever to him. I'm just simply looking at the facts and commenting accordingly.

So if Hock wasn't kicked out for not turning up for the morning warm down, why was he kicked it? It obviously wasn't for drinking as many others were out drinking too. The only difference is they must have turned up, therefore we assume that cost him his place.

Nobody can excuse him for not turning up, oversleeping by accident or not, it was stupid, unprofessional and idiotic. But where have I said anything different?

My main gripe with all of this is with the England management team for creating such a fiasco over the whole affair when it could have been dealt with far better. It didn't need to have a detrimental affect on the team, media or the fans but it undoubtedly has.

Fingers crossed the team rallies together and puts a big performance in on Saturday.

i believe thats why he was as the statement said Breaches and not breach.

dont think the England management caused the fuss. Mick Gledhill wanted his 15 minutes of fame, koukash wrote something before his brain could catch up and then hock has done a national interview cant blame the England management it was those 3 people who caused the fuss.

If they kicked him out for missing 2 small sessions on Sunday for no prior issues with him then McNamara has just ensured England will not get anywhere near the world cup final.

They could not have kicked him out for drinking or the other 6-7 would have gone as well. This once again proves how idiotic Mcbrainfart is as a coach. He either told the others they were going as well or he gave them all a warning and Hock would be fined on top for missing a session.

I am not justifying Hock by any means what he and the other 6-7 did was stupid but you can not treat 1 person different to the others when its a team moral issues.

Wether people like Hock or not he this time has been treated differently by a coach who should be in the Championship coaching and not in the RLWC.

The morale of the other 6-7 players will now be shot to pieces. And if the game is a team game i wonder who grassed them up.

Ffs how have they been treated differently? they showed up the idiot didn't they will get punished no doubt about it hock did worse and gets punished more its hardly a big mystery to as why he is sat at home. And speaking for the morale of players who knows we heard the same here, half of the team disliked Wane, whatever everyone of them spoke about how they wanted to win it for Wane. By the way i agree with your opinion on the coach but that plays no effect in to punishing a player. I would be a lot more worried if he just let it slide.

How have the been treated differently: 6-7 other players broke the drinking ban but they turned up for 2 training sessions. So what has he been kicked out of the squad for all of it, drinking or missing the session. If he was drunk in the morning fair enough but listen to the BBC interview he was on his way to the next meeting or session. So that makes it unlikely he was so drunk he could not get up. He might be a heavier sleeper we do not know.

But the fact is McNamara has kicked Hock out and let the other 6-7 off for breaking a team rule. I am always a believer of tracing a problem to its start. And if Hock did not go drinking on Saturday he would have made that session. So the problem is the drinking and others are just as guilty as him in my book.

For the record i agreed with what Wane did with Hock he handled that well especially from the moment he missed the Catalan play off last season. McNamara should have put the team first and given a warning to Hock and all the others anymore and your gone. Ferres is a good player but he is not international quality.

So McNamara has just caused a massive media row by kicking out Hock for a bit part player whilst instantly destroying the morale of some of the players. For all Wanes faults at times he would have handled that situation a whole lot better than the present coaching staff. Especially given that the good Doctor at Salford used the media to get Hock's story out asap and made the RFL as usual look shambolic.

FFS i forgot the RFL is shambolic.

stop making your self look silly, as for believing what hock says and what actually is the truth i imagine its far apart. so you'r just going to forgive him for missing a session because its convenient to blame it on the drink? the others managed to GET THERE!

You can't just say because Ferres isn't as good as hock (when on form, cant remember the last time) he shouldn't be dropped. No Koukash has made him self look weak and stupid, can imagine the fun Chase, tim smith, gleeson and hock are going to have if they don't have to turn up for training because they was ed.

Its nobodies fault other than Hocks and you must be family to be sticking up for him this much.

You've answered your own question twice. I think they're all being punished for going out, Hock's been punished more severely because he did something else as well.