This.

But that's exactly what YOU'RE doing! You're arguing your way is correct and any others aren't. What's the difference?

As for your second assertion; in that case we may as well do away with the league altogether. There is simply no point to it. You've basically described a cup competition. In fact you've pretty much described the Challenge Cup. It was my understanding that the league was designed, not as a cup competition, but to determine which is the best team over the course of a whole season where each team plays every other. That is not a cup competition which is more about the luck of the draw and who, as you say, 'can get up for it on the day' (sic). If you want two cup competitions why didn't you say? That is a whole different argument and would have saved a lot of time.

Mate, you're doing it again. Last time I said there was only one way, now I am saying there is only one CORRECT way, neither of which I have ACTUALLY said. Which is it? Make your mind up! As a matter of fact I have done no more or no less that you; namely given my opinion of which would be the better way. If that's illogical as you state, then we are both equally guilty.

Douglas didn't get up for one fight. He didn't get a shot at the title by being 'bum of the month'. He beat, among others, Trevor Berbick, Greg Page, Oliver McCall and Mike Tyson on his way to becoming undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. The fact that he was inconsistent and lost other fights he shouldn't have was exactly my point! You also seem to be agreeing that Mike Tyson's consistancy is what marks him out as the better fighter despite losing to Douglas. You're beginning to argue against yourself. Not sure what you hope to prove by that but hey! Knock yourself out... (pun intended! haha)

Are you serious???? Ali was the most consistent performer of his generation! It was 32 fights before he lost a single fight (in what has been described since as 'the fight of the century') and 43 before he lost again! In fact those were his only losses in 57 fights up to what was universally described as his decline (where he lost 3 of his last 4 fights) As this was later seen to be due to the onset of Parkinson's I think we can excuse him this lapse!! Mate, I accused you earlier of rewriting history but you've seriously outdone yourself this time! To be honest, I'm not sure there's much point in continuing the debate if you're twisting facts to this degree just to try and shoehorn them to suit your argument. On a personal note, and as a sports fan, I think you should hang your head in shame at this slight on possibly the greatest sportsman who ever lived. Just my opinion of course....

4) Bring in a new rule that only Wigan Warriors are allowed to be champions.

Why? Are no one else capable of topping the league? Sorry for my misunderstanding but I could have sworn Warrington did last year, not to mention Saints and yourselves in recent seasons. Go on...explain. This should be interesting!

Quote: Phuzzy "Why? Are no one else capable of topping the league? Sorry for my misunderstanding but I could have sworn Warrington did last year, not to mention Saints and yourselves in recent seasons. Go on...explain. This should be interesting! Warrington did indeed win the league last year but there didn't seem to be the same fervour for revamping the comp when they were knocked out of the playoffs, at least not on here. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=509953&tsmp=1350142495&start=20 Put yourself in the position of other fans and you'll probably see where their cynicism arises. FWIW I do believe a revamp would improve matters, hubcap winners and GF winners to go into a 4 team WCC which would increase the reward for achieving the former feat. If a team does the double then league runner up gets in too. I'd support a reversion to 5 teams too.

Quote: Phuzzy "Why? Are no one else capable of topping the league? Sorry for my misunderstanding but I could have sworn Warrington did last year, not to mention Saints and yourselves in recent seasons. Go on...explain. This should be interesting! Warrington did indeed win the league last year but there didn't seem to be the same fervour for revamping the comp when they were knocked out of the playoffs, at least not on here. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=509953&tsmp=1350142495&start=20 Put yourself in the position of other fans and you'll probably see where their cynicism arises. FWIW I do believe a revamp would improve matters, hubcap winners and GF winners to go into a 4 team WCC which would increase the reward for achieving the former feat. If a team does the double then league runner up gets in too. I'd support a reversion to 5 teams too.

I don't think the RFL are going to move away from a top 8 system unfortunately, especially given the NRL has adopted the exact same system this year as opposed to 1v8, 2v7 etc.

Personally, I think a top 8 system would have more credibility if there were 14 competitive teams (ideally 16, but that won't happen for some time imo). As it is at the moment we know that come September 2013 the top 4 will more than likely be Wigan, Wire, Sts, Leeds/Catalan/Hull, which perhaps explains a lot of the apathy for the regular season. There's just not really anything to play for.

In an ideal world, letting the LLS winners into a 4-team WCC would be great - an RL Champions League. Unfortunately the Aussies just don't take it seriously enough for it to be a viable option. If we were going to go ahead with this plan, I'd rather have it at the end of the season so that the squad that won the respective titles actually play in the thing.

I also think expansion needs to be persevered with. Not in the sense of plonking a team in a random location and hoping for the best, but taking advantage of the resources on our doorstep. Teams should be encouraged to widen the net with regard to youth development and supporter recruitment. While places like Liverpool and Manchester may not have a widespread appeal for RL as they do with football, the RFL or the clubs themselves should be getting in to schools and showing kids there that there are more sports than just football!

You should be able to add Hudds to that list given their squad. So half the league competing for the top 4 - how many other sports can hope for that? You could name the top 3 in football without a doubt. That's really killing their attendances.



True. Apart from pride. And winning pay. And because that's what they are trained to do.



I agree, which is why they already do it. But it costs money.

That's everything sorted then?

Whether the whole Premier League system is competitive or not, using your football analogy, would anyone accept a team coming say 12th after 38 matches played home and away and plotting a course in an elite knockout competition with second chances for higher placed clubs if they lost their first matches, or teams fielding weakened teams to artificially lower their positions to get a better draw being crowned Champions....

If you are suggesting teams are deliberately losing games to finish lower then you are off your rocker. Any coach with any sense is going to spell players & if they do that against better teams where there is a good chance they are going to get beat then so be it. I remember a Wigan coach doing it & getting a 44-0 stuffing at Cas, ask Kris Radlinski if, on his debut, they went out to get beat.

Back to football, if there was such a competition, if a mid-table club such as Fulham came from 12th to win it the whole football world would be in raptures. I would expect bitter, paranoid whinging from the fans of Chelsea & Man Utd though.

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Would you blame them? Yes, it would be a great achievement for Fulham, but United and Chelsea would be a bit peeved that they'd spent 38 games busting a gut to finish as high as possible, to end up with nothing but a hearty handshake and a "Back to football, if there was such a competition, if a mid-table club such as Fulham came from 12th to win it the whole football world would be in raptures. I would expect bitter, paranoid whinging from the fans of Chelsea & Man Utd though.'"

Without doubt coaches rest players and tinker with team selection based on the opposition and up and coming/following fixtures. Apart from spreading the load I accept that it gives a coach the opportunity to test some of the younger lads/fringe players and doesn't have to be seen as some part of a conspiracy theory of throwing games. However, that doesn't mean that the current system isn't open to that "paraniod" thinking in fact it almost promotes it, particularly as the business end including the Challenge Cup is taking place in a final 6 week period more than likely involving the same teams.

Why don't you think football runs the same competition having seen the light and what a spectacle GF day was? Why are they not thinking ooohhh we can have some of that? Apart from they don't need to from a revenue stream/TV money point of view they might just think we'd have to be off our collective "rocker"?

Supposition aside, if it was a football thing then I could see a situation where the Champions are the Champions and the final Champions League place goes to the winner of a play off series to open up the reward beyond 4th place. If one of the top 3 win the play off then the highest league position 4th gets the spot.

We could do something similar with an expanded WCC series if we could get interest from NRL and some £££/AUS$

Football doesn't because it doesn’t need to, though the Champions League is a glorified play off where a team not finishing top of its domestic league or CL league can win it. I can see it changing in the future though. If a European Super League of the greedy clubs is established an end of season play-off would be too much to resist with the potential income streams.

The clubs voted for the current system, if they can’t play the system to their own advantage they have themselves to blame, not the RFL.

I would love an expanded WCC. It would, providing we were competitive, be almost too good for our biased media to ignore. I would be all for our clubs resting their best palyers in readiness for it.

I think you have answered my case perfectly well, so thank you.

Why don't you feel that football has to follow our lead? May be because it has got its product right? May be because paymasters Sky can sell a set of fixtures throughout the whole season as games that matter rather than the regular rounds descending into some 27 week warm up for a 6 week end of year frenzy, (it will only get worse IMO)?

The football 'play off'/Champions League is a separate competition. City won the Premiership and are called the Champions Chelsea didn't usurp them because they won the Champions League because it is deemed to be a better competition. when Liverpool last won it they weren't even the best team in Merseyside.

I'm not blaming the RL as such, just looking for a fairer reward/acknowledgement for a seasons' work. I'm not a Wigan, or Leeds fan, but, congratulated them heartily on their successes this year