A very good summary.

Few, if any, would disagree that the area Saints seem to be miles ahead of us in is the kicking department. Last tackle options are absolutely critical in a game like this.

shame the kicking department will be playing for salford next year!

This is fun!

You can be forgiven for not realising how many injuries we actually had, because, as I say, we didn't make a big thing of them, but when it got so bad we were forced into giving Karl Pryce a run of games, that shows just how bad things were!

Are you sure you want to keep using these two to make your point?

Both McGuire and Peacock played against us when we battered them in July, and McGuire played when we battered them in March.

Even though Leeds pipped us in two other matches - by one point and two points respectively - I think the overall evidence is that Wigan have been significantly better than Leeds this season.

You keeping insisting otherwise is starting to sound a little like sour grapes that Wigan are back with the big boys.

Of course they make a massive difference, both in terms of one off big games and in terms of consistency over the course of the season. Do Leon Pryce and Kyle Eastmond not count because they played when you nicked a win at Saints earlier this season ? Of course they do, its a bit of a strange point to make. Furthermore, with the amount of field position Leeds had against Wigan last week, had McGuire played the result could very well have been different. I have already stated that it matters not anyhow as we are at Old Trafford again despite missing countless players.

With regards to your final point, I have no issue with Wigan being back. In fact I am quite pleased by it. Its about time we had a derby in the big final again anyway.

We've had the following injured at some time or another: Cameron Phelps, Amos Roberts, Martin Gleeson, George Carmont, Thomas Leuluai, Stuart Fielden, Mark Riddell, Harrison Hansen, Sean O'Loughlin, Paul Prescott, Mike McIlorum, Phil Bailey, Paul Deacon, Eamon O'Carroll, Lee Mossop, and Darrell Goulding.

Lee Mossop, Paul Deacon, Harrison Hansen, Cameron Phelps, and Phil Bailey all for extended periods. But to be fair that's less of an impact than having 3 half backs out at teh same time.

Amos was also out for an extended period which COULD have been a massive loss. The form he was in made him a very clear favourite for man of steel after the first few months of the season.

Even if you just had kyle eastmond in the middle of the field proppped up by a few crutches with a sling flicking his floppy broken leg back and forth to kick the ball you would have a better kicking game than ours.

Why are you ignoring the point I made ... namely that in the two convincing league victories we had over Leeds, McGuire was playing in the first and McGuire and Peacock were both playing in the second? It seems to me that you only want to talk about the last match because that's the one in which they weren't playing.

Also ... I didn't say that Eastmond and Pryce don't count. I was talking about Leeds, not Saints. The only reference I made to Eastmond in this thread was that maybe you lot had better get used to being without him, as we have had to get used to being without Roberts, because neither Eastmond or Roberts ever seem to be available.

Field position and kicking will be key. Wigan need to starve Saints of the ball, especially when Cunningham is on. Deacon needs to use his head, kick early to Meli, turn their big lads around, while they are still getting onside, Foster/Gidley/Wellens etc will have taken another scoot or two. It's too late in the set for Graham and the big lads to get a roll on and Cunningham to take them down field. I fancy Wigan to win it, just because of the difference in the halves and backs.

It'll be a very interesting game.

Richards > Foster

There's the answer.

Because your point is a nonsense. You seem to be saying that because you have beaten Leeds in a domestic league game without these players, that therefore McGuire and Peacock would make little impact in a major knock out game ? I seriously dont see what you are trying to suggest. Leeds have proven themselves as the best on the big occasion for the past few years and in particular both McGuire and Peacock. Peacock is a huge metre maker and McGuire a big scorer and assists in many as well. Your point does not stand up. Simply because they played when Wigan beat Leeds in a meaningless league game does not mean that they are both not massive parts of Leeds ability to win the big game and that their losses did not impact on their ability to get consistent results.



The whole point I made was that Wigan have topped the table in massive part because Leeds and St Helens have had big disruptions with injuries this season. Since Saints finished closest to Wigan I would suggest that discussing the injuries Saints have suffered is an enormous part of that point. .

With regards to Eastmond Im actually inclined to agree. He is a player who you invariably hold your breath whenever he goes into contact.

no point trying, you won't win

I see. So the Wigan/Leeds matches that Wigan won were 'meaningless' (even though they were league games staged when both sides still had it all to play for)? In other words, they were non-competitive and Leeds weren't trying very hard, despite them having their best players on the field? And this is the explanation why Wigan won? And why, if these guys had been playing in the knock-out game, Leeds would have won.

And that's the evidence with which you back up your assertion?

Do guys like you ever stop to wonder what you actually sound like?