You may not agree with his views or agenda but if you don't want to read or reply, then don't.

Let's just keep things sensible. Too many threads have turned into personal attacks recently.

Wane and McGuire both won the LLS.
Although it is fashionable not to rate this achievement, I do.
To come top of the League after 27 games played makes a team the best in the League. The fact that the RFL/SL have the winner of the GF the League Champions proves that they have separated the "Champions" from "The best team in the League".
I pay my season ticket money to watch League games. They matter to me!
Play Offs and Cup Ties mean I pay additional money to watch which makes them additional competitions in the season to the main event which is the Super League fixture season.
I may well be a minority of one on this!

At the end of the day though, the other 13 teams aren't going into the season with a goal of finishing top, they all want to make the top 8 and win the grand final. I'm not saying they don't put the effort into winning league games or anything, but I can guarantee different decisions would be made in various instances if there were no play offs. Further to that, I do like the concept of the play offs, if not their current execution. For a team to be crowned champions I want to see them prove they can beat the best, you can do finish top of the league and not be able to do that e.g we lost both Wire league games last year but still finished top

They matter to me as well FT. They also matter to Saints fans or their chairman wouldn't having to be issuing the statements he does but at the end of the day Wane won't keep his job if he wins the hub cap year after year and Saints win a GF off the back of poor league seasons.

IL wants finals and he wants continued improvement. If Wane agrees to give these while saying we can cover the losses of the players going such as Mossop, Richards and Sam then he's going to have to deliver.

How many meters we make in the league won't count if we don't and if Wane decided he knew better than Madge and changed a winning formula and loses then he will be judged on that as well by IL despite the change in personnel because he will have accepted those anyway.

I still think he will be here for next season but I think he will have to deliver then if he doesn't this. We can obviously still win both and the big tests are coming. Lets hope everyone is fit and we don't end up debating was he right to play Murphy at 1 or whatever.

The only stats that matter, are those that support your case...

Make that two of us Father! Couldn't agree more.

And judging by the attendances at the play-offs (especially v Saints 2011) there might be a few more of us out there.

The league is the only true barometer of success in the long term as cups have too much luck involved. No one will convince me that Wigan and Warrington haven't been the best two teams over the last two seasons, SL champions or not.

Only stat that matter trophies won. We can lead the statistics in every department but if we do not win a trophy it will be a poor season and the statistics will mean sod all.

Meaningless Stats.

I bet if you looked at Leeds stats vs Wigans last year, the Wigan stats would come out as more favourable.

Yet we won bugger all and Leeds are the champions.

This is the only stat that matters.

I agree, i did not say otherwise.

Really?

You have a very narrow and probably rather unfulfilled view of life and the game in that case.

Ever tried coaching any kids with that sort of attitude? (yours not theirs)

There are many "things that matter" my friend not just winning trophies.

You sound like the Wakefield of the world where taking part is all that matters because you know your methods is not good enough and you will never amount to anything in the game.

1 small point SL is not played by kids its played by professional athletes who play each game to win. And the goal is it win the Grand Final. What is yours for everyone to like you because you have a full life but an empty trophy room.

I have coached kids (RU not RL) and yes up to about U16 there are plenty important things other than just the win.

This isn't kids though and when they hit the U16's and later winning is very important so I am not sure of the relevance of any of this here.

I agree though the league is important. I pay my season ticket money expecting to be entertained and expecting to see my team win more often than lose. Entirely no point to going otherwise.

I also view the league and play-offs as separate. Maybe because my season ticket doesn't get me into the play offs!

I am also sure the clubs are grateful fans care about the league or there wouldn't be any clubs either.

At the end of the day though winning the league and nothing else won't keep Wane in a job no matter what the stats say.

Bugger me i agree.

The higher up is sports you go the bigger the reward the bigger the penalty. Its just unfortunate we have a game where you can win half your games in a season and still win 2 trophies.

Its about time the club rewarded the season ticket holders. Time to let them use the for the 1st play off game for free and the 2nd at half price. If we get a home game. I am not a season ticket holder but its embarrassing that so many seats are empty for those games. How much revenue would IL lose out on when we struggle to get 10k for them and many like me who do not have a season ticket do go to them if work allows it.

Sport is about winning / enjoyment / fulfilment / and playing within the rules (not cheating). Add that lot together and you have something worthy. I have enjoyed our Challenge Cups and Grand Final successes, but I still get a lot out of watching the team even if we lose. Of course winning trophies is what we aim for, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all.

Living your own life vicariously through the success of others can only lead to having an unfulfilled life I'm afrraid. So yes that would be more important than trophies.

Whether you like it or not Rugby league players do NOT have a win AT ALL costs attitude, and long may it continue, it's one of the reasons it's such a great game. If you want to see win-at-all-costs just watch professional football - diving to get players sent off, diving to win penalties, abusing the referee, cheating to gain any advantage however small - is commonplace.

And another small point. How patronising is your attitude towards Wakefield? Did you not go to the game last month and learn anything?