The biggest winner from Friday night was Leroy Cudjoe IMO, who I thought was excellent. He's really come on this season and I'd now probably select him ahead of Jack Reed (not seen him play this year so always tough to judge).

I think there's probably one place available between Mossop, Hill and Crabtree and I'd probably go the latter. We'll also probably have to pick three second rowers from Ellis, Westwood, Farrell, Hock and JJB with 2 starting and 1 on the bench.

The halfbacks, as ever, will be the issue for us. Will they be good enough to play on the back of what looks a terrific pack. We certainly have more strike in the backline then we've had for a number of years.

At the momen I'd go with...

Sam
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe/Reed
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Graham
McLlorum
S Burgess
2 from
Ellis, Farrell, Westwood
O'Loughlin

Roby
G Burgess
Crabtree
Hock

I think Ellis, Westwood and Farrell are all starting 2nd rowers so one should miss out all together, Hock is far and away the best impact back rower and should get the bench spot IMO.

Sinfield gets dogged by a lot on here but you know what you get from him, organisation and a good kicking game. Better than te likes of Smiths IMO plus the added plus of his goal kicking.

I'd go:

1 S.Tomkins
2. J.Charnley/T.Briscoe (depending on form at the end of the year)
3. J.Reed/L.Cudjoe (don't watch NRL so can't really comment)
4. K.Watkins
5. R.Hall
6. K.Sinfield
7. G.Widdop
8. J.Graham
9. J.Roby
10. S.Burgess
11. B.Westwood
12. L.Farrell
13. S.O'Loughlin

14. R.Burrow
15. E.Crabtree
16. C.Hill/G.Burgess (again, don't watch NRL)
17. G.Hock

If we could put that side out we'd probably have a good crack at them. Sadly injuries will creep in and we don't have the depth to cope like the aussies do

Sadly, probably not.

Sinfield is the one we'd look to for organisation and the kicking game, we know all too well how he can control a game if he's allowed to kick off the front foot.

As for his partner, I'm not overly excited by the options. Myler isn't an international half back, Chase doesn't seem to fit for me, which would leave Widdop as the more likely option.

Tomkins
Charnley
Reed/Cudjoe
Watkins
Hall
Sinfield
Widdop
S. Burgess
Roby
Mossop
Ellis
Farrell
O'Loughlin

G. Burgess
Graham
Hock
Westwood

I think playing an impact hooker or half off the bench is unecessary and disrupts the team. Roby is an 80 minute hooker. Obviously there could be issues if we have in-game injuries but I think there is enough utility within that 17 for it to be worth the risk. I'd use Graham off the bench as he is used for the Bulldogs, i.e. come on around 20 minutes then stay on. Sam Burgess can be shifted to backrow to accomodate the other props.

Whether people think it's right or not, Sinfield will be the starting 6, for me it has to be alongside a 7 who can fit in to structuted plays to try and get Tomkins some space chiming in from fullback. Unfortunately England under McNamara never look like they are coached to do this, and I think we'll see Chase or Myler start with Widdop wasted and underused with a bench spot.

Sadly its all irrelevant as no matter what team we put out they are still coached by Mcnamara who is completely inept at club level let alone as an international coach. On paper we should be competitive but Steve is one of the least inspiring people to have in that role. I have the feeling England will flop big time in the world cup.

Well done to the sensible ones amongst you naming Roby at 9. The idiots naming McIlorum there are just making themselves look silly with their biased nonsense. It's like Saints fans claiming Gardner should play before Charnley. Plain stupid. Besides, Danny Houghton is England's 2nd best hooker after Roby.

Before i even opened the thread i knew you would be on here nagging about how much better Roby is at scooting than McIlorum, get over it every wigan fan knows how good both of them are and in my opinion McIlorum is a more rounded player than Roby and should be playing against the Aussies in the opening 20 of each half because of he's defense against bigger blokes and then Roby should come on after the intensity drops a little.

Its no surprise that wigan are weaker without McIlorum because he's developed in to a quality hooker, but stop being silly about Houghton he is a work horse but thats a far as it goes.

It's the best we've looked in a long while but were still nowhere near aus. That's not to say we couldn't sneak a few wins at the end of the year...


Sam
Charnley
Reed
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Graham
McIlorum
Burgess
Hock
Westwood
O'Loughlin

Roby
Mossop
G.Burgess
Ellis

Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Cudjoe, Hall, Sinfield, Chase, Burgess, Roby, Graham, Hock, Ellis, O'Loughlin. Sub's Widdop, Westwood, Morley, Mossop.

International RL isn't all about silky skills. The last time we performed well against the Aussies in the late 80s Carl Gibson, Roy Powell and Darrell Powell were amongst our best. Players who will get their hands dirty and do a specific job for the team. And Mc has the potential to be one of these, someone who you'd want at your side in the trenches. Someone who would annoy the opposition in a similar way that Barry McDermott did.

nb I would still pick Roby in the 17.

I'm not getting the Westwood inclusion. He and Chase were probably England poorest players on Friday, and he doesn't seem to have played as well this season for Wire. And Hock on this years performances should be nowhere near the team, he was atrocious last night at Leeds.

Although I'm a big fan of Gaz, I have to agree, his off field problems seem to be affecting his game.

Hock has had exactly the type of year you'd expect from him at Widnes. He looks off the pace he's capable of and his game is littered with errors. He looks a bit like he looked for us when we were a poor team. Capable of good things but generally a frustrated player who thinks he's better then those around him (and he is bar Handbury who's top class).

He can't be picked on this years form. I believe Westwood is a different matter though. His form isn't great but I believe he'll lift it when the big games come round.