Who would you turn to DaveO?

He doesn't have a clue. What a one-eyed post. So SW has been living off the double has he? It's not like he's got us to another Grand Final since then? Or even two? Certain people have an agenda against SW. I'm guessing the Grand Final loss didn't hurt too much for those people because they can argue they were right.

Pathetic.

One thing to consider is some of the luck wane had in 2013. Look at the CC run. I mean seriously. It was on a plate with a knife and falk. Then warrington having their players dropping like flies after they had taken complete control in the final. But I wouldn't be willing to take credit away from wane for that, as leeds were disposed of to get there and warrington injuries or not still a very good comeback.

I think the 2013 double gives wane more good will in the bank than he deserves, overall.

so he had some luck in 2013. He had some bad luck in 2012, 2014 and 2015. Or does only good luck count in the argument against Wane?

I don't think wane's had any bad luck. In 2012 wigan just weren't good enough in the games that mattered. Theres been no bad luck in 2014 and 2015. It wasn't bad luck that wigan had a man sent off. It was a result of the mentality wane had instilled into them. In 2015 leeds last mninute try worked in wigans favour, as it meant they had a far easier run to get to the final, and in the final wigan had ample territory and posession to win the game against a tired but big hearted leeds team, but simply weren't good enough to score enough points.

That's the million dollar question.

No one ever really knows who is out there. To simply look at the straightforward options like Powell etc is just scratching the surface imo. Heck the last two coaches to win the NRL GF are both 'left field' appointments - Madge from us and Green from the reserves.

I think that question gets right to the point of the argument people like myself and others are trying to make.

How long is enough before success has to be delivered? With the team and resources and an upheavl for two of our main rivals in Leeds and Wire we should be capitalising.

Don't expect an answer though. It's easy for the pro Wane brigade to talk about 'other success' like developing youngsters or reaching the GF. These things can't really be measured and are subjective to each individual (some are happy with 4 youngsters, others 6 etc) where hard facts like trophies in the cabinet are black and white - you either win them or you don't.

SW's bad luck was not getting Saints in the semi because we would have played a team who have ample territory and possession to win a game but are simply aren't good enough to score enough points against a team despite being the Entertainers of the competition. This would have had the team in top condition ready for a much harder proposition.
If SW has had no bad luck in 4 years I'm gonna start asking him to do my Lucky Fifteen every Saturday!
SW has also had back luck in not having a statue built in Merseyside thanking him for mentally damaging Wigoon players therefore ensuring they blow every game they play in and never achieve any level of success.
I'm not David Attenborough but maybe "Apes" don't have bad luck??

I see, so Wane's bad luck was in having too easy a semi final!

Winners win. You could argue leeds were unlucky this season losing sutcliffe, aiton, jjb and then ward for the season, all of whom were first choice 13 players.

Wane has finished up trophyless in the majority of his seasons because he hasn't been good enough, not because any alleged bad luck has prevented it.

If you're not winning trophies at a club the size of Wigan normally you'd come under a bit of pressure but Wane is developing a side to set us up for future success and it just feels like we're moving forward. If it all felt stale (like I felt it was getting earlier in the season) then I think it'd be right to freshen it up but the last couple of months have been positive.

The big decision to drop Charnley was a good sign, Gildarts form and Wanes bravery to keep him in was a breath of fresh air and the forward pack stopped playing like scared little girls. If we can get a bit more out of the experienced heads like Smith, Micky Mac and Lockers I think we'll have cracked it.

No his bad luck was not getting Saints in the semis. That would have been easier. Are you keeping up with this?
When are you going to start raising monies to build a statue? The guy is responsible for other teams winning major trophies year in and year out and yet you ape around sounding off on forums when you could have started a fun run across Car Mill Dam to kick start the fund raising. Just Waney's bad luck that your his biggest critic but can't be bothered to commemorate his devotion in helping other teams win trophies. Who'd believe it.

Wasn't Brian Noble "building something" back in 2009?

Agree with most of that, but on your last sentence, I don't think we can.

I've never been much of a MickeyMac fan. I'd have Roby/Hodgson/Clark/Aiton/maybeafewothers in a heartbeat for preference. Lockers is surely nearing the end, and as for Smith... well, I just don't know. He seems to have regressed badly over the last season. he certainly doesn't look a starting half-back now, let alone for the whole of next season. I'd like to see him tried at 9. Could be, like TommyL, he'd be a better dummy-half than he ever was half-back.

Brian Noble had been given almost 4 seasons and although he'd taken us forward from where we where in 2006, he was unable to take us to the next step, IE getting to finals regularly, this was proven when his successor won the SL title in his first year.

Shaun Wane has a proven track record of 3 trophies in 4 years and 4 finals in the same period. If luck and particular decisions, refereeing or otherwise, had gone our way we'd have 5 trophies in 4 years.